Defying the Will of God???

SetiAlpha6

SetiAlpha6

Come Let Us Reason Together
Valued Senior Member
Why would a person of any religion go to a doctor to be healed when God is supposed to be able to heal them Himself. If they pray to Him for healing and He denies their request, by not healing them, are they not defying His will for them if they resort to seeking the healing from a mere man through surgery or medication instead?

If they defy His will for them is that not a sin? Where is the scriptural basis for defying God’s will in this manner? Aren't you supposed to live a life within the will of God not inspite of it? I thought also that suffering was supposed to be good for man? Some faiths teach that anyway!

So why should anyone ever seek a "carnal" method of healing at all? Should not the medical arts even be regarded as evil?

Seems kinda like a way to get around the will of God, to me, not a way to live within it.

What do you all think?
 
one_raven said:
I think you're fishing.
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There are churches out there that teach these very things to their people. And I have also had to try and figure out how this is supposed to work in the past, in my own life?

What do you think about this, one_raven?
 
IceAgeCivilizations said:
As I recall, Luke was a physician, and Jesus was called The Great

*************
M*W: Yes, that's how the story goes, but it's all symbolism for something else. That something else is astro-theology.

The twelve apostles refer to the 12 signs of the zodiac. The four gospels refer to the 4 seasons. The G.Luke represents spring. Luke is Latin for "Lucian," or "light." This is not too far off from "Lucifer," or "light-bringer."

John the Baptist was a fictional character associated with the Sign of Aquarius. Aquarius is the "Water-Bearer." The Sign of Aquarius rises slightly above the horizon in August, but its body cannot be viewed. This astrological phenomena is the progenitor of the myth of John the Baptist's beheading.

James is represented by the Signs of Scorpio and Capricorn. James also associated with the god Janus which is another name for January. These are the signs of winter when the sun (god) goes away. James is also associated with death.

Thomas is another name for Tammuz. Thomas was known as the "doubter." It is said that Thomas is the twin brother of Christ.

John is derived from Oannes, Joannes and Jahan, the Sumerian-Babylonian fish god. From this early god, we also derive Janus (January), the god who opens the year. Much Christian symbolism comes from the cult of Oannes.

The four gospels are representations of the four cardinal points of the zodiac! North, South, East and West.

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years" - (Genesis 1:14)

The Book of Luke is transparent and obvious to those who have done their homework. Luke is Latin for Lucius and both words mean Light. The House of Light, of Lucius is Leo, the natal house of the sun. Therefore, G.Luke is known for its portrayal of the nativity. Luke also represents the Sign of Leo. The sun rises to its astrological zenith in the Northern sky in the signs of Cancer and Leo during the months of July and August. Christian iconography depicts one of the Evangelists who is represented by a Lion. In the traditional nativity scenes we see 4 animals around the cradle of the Son/Sun king. One of these is a Lion. Christians believe that there was a lion in the area who just happened to wander into the cave (inn) to take a peek at the sleeping baby Jesus. Good thing the lion wasn't hungry. Symbolically, Jesus is often called "Lion of Judea." It's also been said that the lamb (Jesus) will lay down with the lion.

Luke is represented by the star Aldebaran. When the sun passses by this star Spring (the vernal equinox) begins. The sun (god) appears to move upward (or ascends) to heaven. At this time christians celebrate Easter and the crucifixion of Jesus (sun) who lives again and ascends into heaven. Jews celebrate Passover. The sun crosses or "passes over" the equinox. This cross-ification becomes a symbolic (crucifixion) and Passover.

I cannot stress enough the mythological symbolism in the bible, especially the new testament. The new testament is nothing more than an astrological calendar.
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Medicine Woman said:
IceAgeCivilizations said:
As I recall, Luke was a physician, and Jesus was called The Great

*************
M*W: Yes, that's how the story goes, but it's all symbolism for something else. That something else is astro-theology.

The twelve apostles refer to the 12 signs of the zodiac. The four gospels refer to the 4 seasons. The G.Luke represents spring. Luke is Latin for "Lucian," or "light." This is not too far off from "Lucifer," or "light-bringer."

John the Baptist was a fictional character associated with the Sign of Aquarius. Aquarius is the "Water-Bearer." The Sign of Aquarius rises slightly above the horizon in August, but its body cannot be viewed. This astrological phenomena is the progenitor of the myth of John the Baptist's beheading.

James is represented by the Signs of Scorpio and Capricorn. James also associated with the god Janus which is another name for January. These are the signs of winter when the sun (god) goes away. James is also associated with death.

Thomas is another name for Tammuz. Thomas was known as the "doubter." It is said that Thomas is the twin brother of Christ.

John is derived from Oannes, Joannes and Jahan, the Sumerian-Babylonian fish god. From this early god, we also derive Janus (January), the god who opens the year. Much Christian symbolism comes from the cult of Oannes.

The four gospels are representations of the four cardinal points of the zodiac! North, South, East and West.

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years" - (Genesis 1:14)

The Book of Luke is transparent and obvious to those who have done their homework. Luke is Latin for Lucius and both words mean Light. The House of Light, of Lucius is Leo, the natal house of the sun. Therefore, G.Luke is known for its portrayal of the nativity. Luke also represents the Sign of Leo. The sun rises to its astrological zenith in the Northern sky in the signs of Cancer and Leo during the months of July and August. Christian iconography depicts one of the Evangelists who is represented by a Lion. In the traditional nativity scenes we see 4 animals around the cradle of the Son/Sun king. One of these is a Lion. Christians believe that there was a lion in the area who just happened to wander into the cave (inn) to take a peek at the sleeping baby Jesus. Good thing the lion wasn't hungry. Symbolically, Jesus is often called "Lion of Judea." It's also been said that the lamb (Jesus) will lay down with the lion.

Luke is represented by the star Aldebaran. When the sun passses by this star Spring (the vernal equinox) begins. The sun (god) appears to move upward (or ascends) to heaven. At this time christians celebrate Easter and the crucifixion of Jesus (sun) who lives again and ascends into heaven. Jews celebrate Passover. The sun crosses or "passes over" the equinox. This cross-ification becomes a symbolic (crucifixion) and Passover.

I cannot stress enough the mythological symbolism in the bible, especially the new testament. The new testament is nothing more than an astrological calendar.
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With respect, Medicine Woman! Would you please provide me with some proof for this way of looking at the Bible?

Thanks
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IceAgeCivilizations said:
As I recall, Luke was a physician, and Jesus was called The Great Physician, so they seem to have been intended to work hand in glove.
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Most people are told by a doctor, or find out some way or other, that they might have a liver or a kidney problem, for example. And practically the next minute they are on their knees asking God to heal them. They might even wait a month or two and give God a real chance to perform a miracle for them and heal them. So far so good! So far they are resting within the will of God! So far they are still living and breathing and walking in faith.

But then, at some point you will almost always find that they will probably reach a place of desperation where they just don't seem to think that it is wise to just leave it all up to God's will anymore. They decide to take it into their own hands, don't they? Their will be done! They turn right around and seek an answer in the ways of the world instead.

Here is another very odd thing about this whole thing. If they are eventually healed by the knowledge and skill and sacrifice of a very human and imperfect doctor, even after giving God a chance to heal them, they hardly even give their own doctor a mustard seed's worth of credit. All of the praise goes to God for the healing.

Now does any of this really make any sense?
 
IceAgeCivilizations said:
Luke was a physician, and Jesus didn't tell him to stop it, so there you go.

Both God's healings and physicians' good work are fine things.
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Luke was indeed apparently a physician, and Jesus also didn't tell him to continue in it either. So does that mean that God's healings are fine but a physician's work is not fine?

And why didn't Jesus educate Luke a bit more in the art of healing? Certainly He possessed a much greater knowledge than Luke ever had. Why did He leave this whole area alone without any improvement whatsoever when He could have made a huge difference in the lives of millions of people throughout the coming centuries?

Your posts so far do not really directly address or explain any of the components of my questions.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
Medicine Woman said:
With respect, Medicine Woman! Would you please provide me with some proof for this way of looking at the Bible?

Thanks
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*************
M*W: I'm away from home just now, so I will try to go on memory to give you references:

The Greatest Story Ever Sold, by Acharya S.

The Sun Gods, by Acharya S.

David Fideler wrote a comprehensive book published in about 1965 whose title I cannot remember. If you look up David Fideler on the web, you may be able to find it as well as similar research on how all religion was created from ancient man's visualization of the starry sky at night as they wandered through the deserts as nomads.

There is another comprehensive website if you type in Astro-theology. It's quite extensive and explains the constellations, elements, seasons as metaphors for god and all the biblical personages.

Another way to look up this information is Amazon.com. Type in one of the books by Acharya S., and it will provide you with tons of documentation.

When I get back home, if you haven't found the information you're looking for, let me know and I'll provide you with accurate references.
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IceAgeCivilizations said:
Med Woman, unfortunately for your hypothesis, the Bible condemns astrology.
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*************
M*W: Yes, I know. Your "interpretation" of the bible condemns astrology, but the fact is, the bible, especially the new testament, was written as metaphor based on astrology.
 
IceAgeCivilizations said:
The Bible condemns astrology, you're out o' luck on that one.
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*************
M*W: As I said, your biblical "interpretation," and your fellow believers agree that the bible condemns astrology. I know what the bible says, and I know how it has been translated and interpreted, and retranslated and reinterpreted a thousand times over. The documented reality of it is, the bible especially the new testament, was written based on ancient astrological movements, constellations, stars, elements, seasons and such. The new testament ended up being written as a metaphor for the astrological aspects of the heavens. I only wish I had made this up as I'd become rich from it.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
Why would a person of any religion go to a doctor to be healed when God is supposed to be able to heal them Himself.
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if it was the case that god was on beck and call for every ailment in our constitution I think humanity would be foolhardy then it is at the moment
If they pray to Him for healing and He denies their request, by not healing them, are they not defying His will for them if they resort to seeking the healing from a mere man through surgery or medication instead?
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or alternatively god can act through ordinary ways, by providing the means and intelligence for a person to surmount their situation - or it can be providence that one doesn't recover - god is the ultimate sufficient authority for cause and effect but there are other necessary requirements

BG 18.13: O mighty-armed Arjuna, according to the Vedānta there are five causes for the accomplishment of all action. Now learn of these from Me.

BG 18.14: The place of action [the body], the performer, the various senses, the many different kinds of endeavor, and ultimately the Supersoul — these are the five factors of action.

BG 18.15: Whatever right or wrong action a man performs by body, mind or speech is caused by these five factors.

BG 18.16: Therefore one who thinks himself the only doer, not considering the five factors, is certainly not very intelligent and cannot see things as they are.

If they defy His will for them is that not a sin?
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god's will cannot be denied - if one is destined to die all the paramedics in the world cannot increase life by a second and if one is destined to live, one can crawl out of the most certain death experiences

Where is the scriptural basis for defying God’s will in this manner?
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its not so much about defying god's will - it seem syou are more in line with addresing the variety of options that a variety of theists use to deal with their problems - sure, a pure devotee would see everything as god's will, but since over 99% of persons who identify themselves as theists are not practicing on such a pure platform, it woul dbe unnatural for them to pretend that they are (although sime foolish theists have no reservations about such pretensions ....)
Aren't you supposed to live a life within the will of God not inspite of it?
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that means you live according to god's instructions, not that you sit around waiting for god to tie yoru shoelaces as a signof surrender
I thought also that suffering was supposed to be good for man? Some faiths teach that anyway!
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generally yes - but its just the meaningless suffering that religion recommends avoiding

So why should anyone ever seek a "carnal" method of healing at all? Should not the medical arts even be regarded as evil?
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you assume that medicine has a 100% success rate - first establish that god's will cannot work through medicine
 
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