Define Evil.
- Thread starter Bowser
- Start date
This probably belongs on the ethics forum.
As far as your first option, "No such thing as evil. It's just a concept of mind." Concepts of mind exist. I don't know anyone who'd argue that evil is a physical object, so don't we all agree evil is a concept of mind? The debate is more if the idea of something being morally bad is objectively true (people get the idea from outside somewhere, like from a God) or only subjectively true.
Also, many of those who think the concept of moral wrongness (evil) is an objective truth would say it can't be defined and rather has to be simply known. (G.E. Moore called "good" (and this also "bad") a simple property, like "yellow", that can't be descibed in terms of anything else.)
I find it subjective, so I'd say evil to you is what you define it as, and to someone else it's what they'd define it as. Most people have similar definitions though. My guess at what most people consider "evil": that which has a negative impact on health and hapiness. Degrees of severity of evil are simply based on how severely health and happiness are impacted.
As far as your first option, "No such thing as evil. It's just a concept of mind." Concepts of mind exist. I don't know anyone who'd argue that evil is a physical object, so don't we all agree evil is a concept of mind? The debate is more if the idea of something being morally bad is objectively true (people get the idea from outside somewhere, like from a God) or only subjectively true.
Also, many of those who think the concept of moral wrongness (evil) is an objective truth would say it can't be defined and rather has to be simply known. (G.E. Moore called "good" (and this also "bad") a simple property, like "yellow", that can't be descibed in terms of anything else.)
I find it subjective, so I'd say evil to you is what you define it as, and to someone else it's what they'd define it as. Most people have similar definitions though. My guess at what most people consider "evil": that which has a negative impact on health and hapiness. Degrees of severity of evil are simply based on how severely health and happiness are impacted.
Evil is the pleasure someone derives from a deliberate intentional action that causes harm. Evil is also the result of someone who seeks personal profit and gain from deliberate and intentional actions that cause harm. Either way the intention is to achieve personal satisfaction at the expense of others.
The degree of evil cannot be accurately judged by the level of harm caused. For example: Death could be the result of the action, or it could be someone who is unjustly discredited at his or her place of work. The level of evil pleasure experienced could be similar in either case.
The degree of evil could be mitigated if the person who commits the action shows remorse or regret. If however, the person persists and even commits acts with increasing levels of harm then there should be little doubt they are deriving real pleasure and satisfaction from their actions. That is evil.
Another notion of evil is a force, perhaps of an alleged supernatural source. But there is no factual basis to support such claims.
Evil can also be extended to include governments, religions, organizations and institutions, where no one single individual stands to gain. But ultimately it will be people who are guiding and directing such entities. An example could be a company that knowingly dumps toxic waste where other people would be affected. Or the dairy industry, marketing milk as if it had a health benefit. Or cigarette manufacturers selling products they know kill people.
Cris
PS. But I don’t how that best fits in with your poll.
The degree of evil cannot be accurately judged by the level of harm caused. For example: Death could be the result of the action, or it could be someone who is unjustly discredited at his or her place of work. The level of evil pleasure experienced could be similar in either case.
The degree of evil could be mitigated if the person who commits the action shows remorse or regret. If however, the person persists and even commits acts with increasing levels of harm then there should be little doubt they are deriving real pleasure and satisfaction from their actions. That is evil.
Another notion of evil is a force, perhaps of an alleged supernatural source. But there is no factual basis to support such claims.
Evil can also be extended to include governments, religions, organizations and institutions, where no one single individual stands to gain. But ultimately it will be people who are guiding and directing such entities. An example could be a company that knowingly dumps toxic waste where other people would be affected. Or the dairy industry, marketing milk as if it had a health benefit. Or cigarette manufacturers selling products they know kill people.
Cris
PS. But I don’t how that best fits in with your poll.
Okay it's time for everybody to get their little finger and bring it up to the corner of their mouth with their nail facing their mouth (The Dr. Evil gesture)... Infact it's actually Sign language for "Evil".
Anyway... The following is a whole bunch of quotes that I blatently Ripped from G**gle (<Not telling where!)
Have a read through them, I'm sure you'll find them of use to define an answer to this topic!
The evil that men do lives after them;The good is oft interred with their bones.
William Shakespeare
An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind.
Buddha
Work is a necessary evil to be avoided.
Mark Twain
Government is an unnecessary evil. Human beings, when accustomed to taking responsibility for their own behavior, can cooperate on a basis of mutual trust and helpfulness.
Fred Woodworth
When we forgive evil we do not excuse it, we do not tolerate it, we do not smother it. We look the evil full in the face, call it what it is, let its horror shock and stun and enrage us, and only then do we forgive it.
Lewis B. Smedes
Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems.
Linus Torvalds
By swallowing evil words unsaid, no one has ever harmed his stomach.
Sir Winston Churchill
Do not have evil-doers for friends, do not have low people for friends: have virtuous people for friends, have for friends the best of men.
George Santayana
Non-cooperation with evil is as much a duty as is cooperation with good.
Mohandas Gandhi
The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices.
C. S. Lewis
Understanding does not cure evil, but it is a definite help, inasmuch as one can cope with a comprehensible darkness.
Carl Gustav Jung
The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding.
Albert Camus
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
Blaise Pascal // *Cough,Cough,Tony1!*
Evil has no substance of its own, but is only the defect, excess, perversion, or corruption of that which has substance.
John Henry Newman
Evil exists to glorify the good. Evil is negative good. It is a relative term. Evil can be transmuted into good. What is evil to one at one time, becomes good at another time to somebody else.
Mencius
For evil to triumph, good men have to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
Violence isn't always evil. What's evil is the infatuation with violence.
Jim Morrison
Evil is not something superhuman, it's something less than human.
Agatha Christie
He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil.
Socrates
Be assured those will be thy worst enemies, not to whom thou hast done evil, but who have done evil to thee. And those will be thy best friends, not to whom thou hast done good, but who have done good to thee.
Tacitus
The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
Albert Einstein
It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways.
Buddha
It's better to be good than evil, but one achieves goodness at a terrific cost.
Stephen King
For where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defense.
Dante Alighieri
Keep what you have; the known evil is best.
Titus Maccius Plautus
Anyway... The following is a whole bunch of quotes that I blatently Ripped from G**gle (<Not telling where!)
Have a read through them, I'm sure you'll find them of use to define an answer to this topic!
The evil that men do lives after them;The good is oft interred with their bones.
William Shakespeare
An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind.
Buddha
Work is a necessary evil to be avoided.
Mark Twain
Government is an unnecessary evil. Human beings, when accustomed to taking responsibility for their own behavior, can cooperate on a basis of mutual trust and helpfulness.
Fred Woodworth
When we forgive evil we do not excuse it, we do not tolerate it, we do not smother it. We look the evil full in the face, call it what it is, let its horror shock and stun and enrage us, and only then do we forgive it.
Lewis B. Smedes
Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems.
Linus Torvalds
By swallowing evil words unsaid, no one has ever harmed his stomach.
Sir Winston Churchill
Do not have evil-doers for friends, do not have low people for friends: have virtuous people for friends, have for friends the best of men.
George Santayana
Non-cooperation with evil is as much a duty as is cooperation with good.
Mohandas Gandhi
The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices.
C. S. Lewis
Understanding does not cure evil, but it is a definite help, inasmuch as one can cope with a comprehensible darkness.
Carl Gustav Jung
The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding.
Albert Camus
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
Blaise Pascal // *Cough,Cough,Tony1!*
Evil has no substance of its own, but is only the defect, excess, perversion, or corruption of that which has substance.
John Henry Newman
Evil exists to glorify the good. Evil is negative good. It is a relative term. Evil can be transmuted into good. What is evil to one at one time, becomes good at another time to somebody else.
Mencius
For evil to triumph, good men have to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
Violence isn't always evil. What's evil is the infatuation with violence.
Jim Morrison
Evil is not something superhuman, it's something less than human.
Agatha Christie
He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil.
Socrates
Be assured those will be thy worst enemies, not to whom thou hast done evil, but who have done evil to thee. And those will be thy best friends, not to whom thou hast done good, but who have done good to thee.
Tacitus
The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
Albert Einstein
It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways.
Buddha
It's better to be good than evil, but one achieves goodness at a terrific cost.
Stephen King
For where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defense.
Dante Alighieri
Keep what you have; the known evil is best.
Titus Maccius Plautus
I find the quote ironic, considering suffering is an entirely subjective experience.
(The fact of someone screaming isn't suffering... the pain they subjectively experience is the suffering.)I have to modify my definition to say the negative impact on health and hapiness must be intentional, as Cris pointed out.
Banshee,
"....most of the times...." ".....humans take....". Your statements imply all humans most of the time. You seem to be including yourself in that group, you realize.
You seem to have a dark view of the human race, do you not see any redeeming features for us?
I can't say I could take any satisfication from committing an evil act, I even have trouble watching a situation comedy on TV as I always feel deeply for the character being embarrassed.
Are you just having a bad time at the moment or are you usually this pessimistic?
I believe there are only a tiny few who are genuinely evil. Many do bad things, often through mistakes, ignorance, or just poor decisions, but they aren't evil.
Cheer up, you sound so depressed.
Cris
"....most of the times...." ".....humans take....". Your statements imply all humans most of the time. You seem to be including yourself in that group, you realize.
You seem to have a dark view of the human race, do you not see any redeeming features for us?
I can't say I could take any satisfication from committing an evil act, I even have trouble watching a situation comedy on TV as I always feel deeply for the character being embarrassed.
Are you just having a bad time at the moment or are you usually this pessimistic?
I believe there are only a tiny few who are genuinely evil. Many do bad things, often through mistakes, ignorance, or just poor decisions, but they aren't evil.
Cheer up, you sound so depressed.
Cris
<i>"Being good is probably too boring for a lot of humans. Sometimes, well most of the times, it seems like humans take a great satisfaction out of doing evil to others..."</i>
There's truth in that. Who doesn't become bored with the drudgery of abstinence? I think that sometimes the coin flips its self for a look at the other side, simply for entertainment.
There's truth in that. Who doesn't become bored with the drudgery of abstinence? I think that sometimes the coin flips its self for a look at the other side, simply for entertainment.
*Are you just having a bad time at the moment or are you usually this pessimistic?*
Just having a bad time Cris.
I have to say though that I don't find it amusing to see all the 'evil' some humans do to eachother. Guess I am doing 'evil' to others myself too yes. Not on purpose, I can garantee you that.
Guess everybody has a dark side at the least...
Just having a bad time Cris.
I have to say though that I don't find it amusing to see all the 'evil' some humans do to eachother. Guess I am doing 'evil' to others myself too yes. Not on purpose, I can garantee you that.
Guess everybody has a dark side at the least...
Hoth,
"I find the quote ironic, considering suffering is an entirely subjective experience. "
Your remark would make an intresting subject in the philosophy dept. *Can something be subjective and objective at the same time?*
As long one consideres a case study (that is intra-subject, only one subject), I think it can. When one does a inter-subject study (compare subjects) there is a different story. It's a tricky subject though. but not the current subject.
Anyway, because the answer to the question (to my opinion) is "yes, something can be both subjective and objective at the same time", evil is in fact an objective phenomenon.
That does not mean that there are no levels of evil-ness.
Merlijn
"I find the quote ironic, considering suffering is an entirely subjective experience. "
Your remark would make an intresting subject in the philosophy dept. *Can something be subjective and objective at the same time?*
As long one consideres a case study (that is intra-subject, only one subject), I think it can. When one does a inter-subject study (compare subjects) there is a different story. It's a tricky subject though. but not the current subject.
Anyway, because the answer to the question (to my opinion) is "yes, something can be both subjective and objective at the same time", evil is in fact an objective phenomenon.
That does not mean that there are no levels of evil-ness.
Merlijn
Merlijn, I would say that something which is in the subjective experience of nearly everyone can be referred to as objective for convenience of speech... but that's the closest I can come to agreeing.
Hypothetical: There's an alien species somewhere that has such huge overpopulation problems, and complete inability to stop reproducing, that they naturally evolve to like death so that the population can stay at a reasonable level that prevents the entire species from dying at once. These creatures murder each other all the time, and enjoy being killed. Both killing and being killed is considered a good and healthy thing which benefits the greater whole. Is the murder they're doing evil?
Now, these creatures come to Earth. A human kills one of them. Is this evil? Next, one of these aliens kills a human. Is this evil? If the alien knows humans don't like to be killed, does it become more evil?
If there are different levels of evil involved with the same basic act of murder, or perhaps even situations where it isn't evil, then why? What's the source of the evil, if not in the act itself?
Hypothetical: There's an alien species somewhere that has such huge overpopulation problems, and complete inability to stop reproducing, that they naturally evolve to like death so that the population can stay at a reasonable level that prevents the entire species from dying at once. These creatures murder each other all the time, and enjoy being killed. Both killing and being killed is considered a good and healthy thing which benefits the greater whole. Is the murder they're doing evil?
Now, these creatures come to Earth. A human kills one of them. Is this evil? Next, one of these aliens kills a human. Is this evil? If the alien knows humans don't like to be killed, does it become more evil?
If there are different levels of evil involved with the same basic act of murder, or perhaps even situations where it isn't evil, then why? What's the source of the evil, if not in the act itself?
Originally posted by Banshee
*Are you just having a bad time at the moment or are you usually this pessimistic?*
Just having a bad time Cris.
I have to say though that I don't find it amusing to see all the 'evil' some humans do to eachother. Guess I am doing 'evil' to others myself too yes. Not on purpose, I can garantee you that.
Guess everybody has a dark side at the least...
Question asked by a poet:
If I showed you my dark side would you still hold me....tonight?
True. At some level, every action is caused by both 'good' and 'evil' reasoning. In varying quantities.
*Question asked by a poet:
If I showed you my dark side would you still hold me....tonight?*
Yes, without hesitation. Isn't this what LOVE is about? To take another human in all his/her way? WITH dark side and all. You can't love only the 'good' part.
Guess the word evil is not quite right. What is true evil? You live your life in the best possible way. There will be situations though that you hurt someone in the progress. How sad it may be, it is part of life.
Harm somebody on purpose can be considered then as doing evil. There are humans who are hurt themselves in a bad way, so they know not better than to hurt others themselves. It gives them a certain satisfaction. For a short time period, then they do it again.
Human nature? It seems that way, it can be changed if humans only would look at life with another view...
If I showed you my dark side would you still hold me....tonight?*
Yes, without hesitation. Isn't this what LOVE is about?
To take another human in all his/her way? WITH dark side and all. You can't love only the 'good' part.Guess the word evil is not quite right. What is true evil? You live your life in the best possible way. There will be situations though that you hurt someone in the progress. How sad it may be, it is part of life.
Harm somebody on purpose can be considered then as doing evil. There are humans who are hurt themselves in a bad way, so they know not better than to hurt others themselves. It gives them a certain satisfaction. For a short time period, then they do it again.
Human nature? It seems that way, it can be changed if humans only would look at life with another view...
I think evolution tends to cause all humans to define evil along generally utilitarian terms. We have a predisposition to dislike pain, and we learn from society using our built-in generalizing abilities how to generalize our moral views into an objective position rather than being selfish. (And of course we learn it mostly in terms of rules, since we can't stop to consider all the consequences of every action.)