Define evidence
- Thread starter Limbo
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Ok. Did I explain the subjective vs objective thing yet? I'm sure I did. Does the fact that you think there's a god make it any more powerful than the my idea that there are invisible aliens from the 11th dimension camped in my backyard? I can't show you them. They leave no measureable trace. But I insist they are there. Why is this different from your god?
You just have to believe, and they will become known to you. It helps if you set out a nice pot of tea and some cookies for them. You'll see!
Hmmm Hmmm ...The court of law, the same people that illustrate religious artifacts over their organization. Many countries are supposedly founded in God's name; just look in their anthems and their justice system equally but somehow the justice departments require cases be proved even beyond reasonable doubt. This is a very delicious riddle only the politicians can swallow, and a hair folicle short of ridiculous.. This is why I will forever wait in the wings and just watch as every man, woman, and child walks the same line into the passage of double standard. God hail the kings and Queens, for the lesser people let them remain in ambivalence. Faith means having reason to believe, there still has to be some sort of reason no matter how minute dalahar. Instance if I put a dice under a cup and ask you if you believe its still there that is faith, even if I were a magician. Religion? Thats no more faith but really hope.
dalahar said:Remember, this country was founded by people who had a belief in God. There are still a lot of people who believe in God. "...so help you, God." What is the problem? I said it couldn't be proven in court. Would you like me to make a national declaration for them to "straighten up?" They won't listen to me...sorry. By the way, seeing there will be human beings in the jury, would you rather the cases not be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt?"
A lot of our laws are based on the Ten Commandments. I know things have changed a lot but everything is never going to be hunky-dory.
Our country (I am guessing you mean the USA) was founded in order to escape religious totalitarian rule in England. Our fore fathers set up systems so that nobody could be discriminated against in the eyes of the government because of their religious beliefs, not so one religion could rule over another in any way shape or form.
How many of our 'laws' are based on the big ten? Two? that isn't "a lot" it is not even a quarter of the ten commandments. Anyway, all of our laws are based on commen knowledge of the law that we have used since before the ten commandments, back into the first courts in ancient Persia. So that is sort of moot.
Anyway, Superluminal is awesome, big ups to you.
-ZERO MASS
"By the way, seeing there will be human beings in the jury, would you rather the cases not be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt?"--dalahar
Why not? Didn't we handle cases differently with the divine Pharoah Kings? In fact some still stay faithful to their religion; Moslim's sharia laws. Thats what I call being faithful and practicing your religion. The christians also did it with the burning at the holy stake and so forth. Many religious people don't know the root of their own religion and haven't studies human and civilized hostory thouroughly enough in my opinion, not secluded to you dalahar. However all of a sudden we realized reason in judgements is more important than the holy court's. This to me is the landmark and echo of suspicion...okay more appropriately reformation. How is God going to judge us spiritualy when we ourselves judge reasonably? Like you said faith is the evidence of things not seen so it all makes sense. "Things not seen" then how do you know there is something there in the first place? Because your intuition permits. Faith is based on something.
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" -dalahar
I think hope is the substance of faith not the other way around
Why not? Didn't we handle cases differently with the divine Pharoah Kings? In fact some still stay faithful to their religion; Moslim's sharia laws. Thats what I call being faithful and practicing your religion. The christians also did it with the burning at the holy stake and so forth. Many religious people don't know the root of their own religion and haven't studies human and civilized hostory thouroughly enough in my opinion, not secluded to you dalahar. However all of a sudden we realized reason in judgements is more important than the holy court's. This to me is the landmark and echo of suspicion...okay more appropriately reformation. How is God going to judge us spiritualy when we ourselves judge reasonably? Like you said faith is the evidence of things not seen so it all makes sense. "Things not seen" then how do you know there is something there in the first place? Because your intuition permits. Faith is based on something.
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" -dalahar
I think hope is the substance of faith not the other way around
I sort of agree. There is evidence for christianity. It' just not scientific evidence. The difference between evidence and scientific evidence can be huge.
Scientific evidence, along with the method of evaluating it, is the strongest technique we have for precluding the possibility of being misled by ourselves. When it's not particularly important whether you're right or wrong, simple evidence is good enough. "Hey look. A round shiny thing in the sky. Must be an alien. Good enough for me". "Hey look. I prayed for rain, and it rained. Thank you god. Good enough for me".
But if you really want to know, (which christians and theists don't really want to IMO) you engage in a scientific investigation. The rules are strict and unforgiving. Your approach will be criticized, your evidence will be scrutinized, and your conclusions tested again and again. Not for the faint of heart. But what comes out the other end is inevitably a decent approximation to the workings of the world.
superluminal said:
It's not, no one can prove God to you, except one of the trinity. We have an opinion, but the burden of proof is on God. The question is, why should you want God to prove himself? If, in your mind he does not exist, then that would be illogical or delusional request.
You need somebody praying for you, just like the Israelites who did not believe in God after God showed them many miracles.
jayleew,
As an atheist I am convinced that there is no god. I am also convinced that we will never travel faster than the speed of light. The idea of a god(s) plays no role in my life. However, when debating religion I ask for proof of god, since you claim he (it?) is real. Just as I ask for proof if someone claims to have invented an FTL drive. It seems perfectly logical to me.
And I've had many theists pray for me over the years.
As an atheist I am convinced that there is no god. I am also convinced that we will never travel faster than the speed of light. The idea of a god(s) plays no role in my life. However, when debating religion I ask for proof of god, since you claim he (it?) is real. Just as I ask for proof if someone claims to have invented an FTL drive. It seems perfectly logical to me.
And I've had many theists pray for me over the years.
It makes perfect sense to ask for proof. But it makes little sense to ask proof from us. We can lie, we can be deluded, we can be wrong. If I told you that aliens landed in my backyard, would that help you believe? If you saw the burned grass, the crop circle, and a gooey ooze on the ground, would that be enough to prove to you that aliens did land in my backyard? Or would it be better to see them yourself, look in their ship, and talk to them?superluminal said:
If you have asked God to prove himself, how long did you wait for him? If God is infinitely old, your life is an instant to him, so what good is it to close the door before he answers. Will he answer?
jayleew,
You are quite correct.
You are quite correct.
Y
Yorda_7
Guest
he's wrong about everything.
and so are you.
there is no hope.
no future.
there is only one choice.
give up and suffer forever.