Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
Does consumerism count as a religion?
Death to Apostates (?)
- Thread starter James R
- Start date
Is Proctor or Gamble the god of worship?
JesseLeigh
Registered Member
What precisely is an apostate?
G'morning!
An apostate is one who has forsaken his previously held to faith and is now actively 'anti' that faith.
I answered 'other' on the poll because I'm a Christian - a missionary, with no particular affiliation and no label other than that of a disciple of Christ. I do not believe that apostates should be killed - by humans, but the Bible does make it clear that *all* who will not give their allegiance to GOD will be destroyed by a 'Second death.' Not tortured in hell (Hebrew = Sheol and Greek = Hades), which simply means the common grave of all mankind, where no one is conscious in any case.
Ge'henna or 'The Lake of Fire,' which simply means 'The second death/eternal (everlasting) destruction)' is the destination of all people who refuse and don't wish to be ruled by God on Earth or in Heaven.
It is worthy of note that God does not wish to destroy *anyone.* 'For I desire that *none* should be destroyed, but that *all* should attain to *repentance.*'
It is God's will that we are all RESTORED to HIM. He desires restoration and 'Mercy, not sacrifice.' God gives us all the *choice* of whether or not to return His Love and live under His Loving Sovereignty forever.
Just as all countries, institutions, and all organized entities - even this forum must have rules in order to avoid chaos, so must God's Kingdom. The rules are simple, 'Love God... and love your neighbor as yourself.' If we can't (or more accurately - don't want to) do that, then we don't get in.
It's heartening to see that more than half of those who've voted, so far, don't want to see believers killed. Christ said, in Matthew 25:40 'To the extent that you do it to the least of these, my brethren, you do it to Me.' So, whatever kindness one shows to those of us who are followers of Christ, however imperfectly we manage to do that, Christ will account that act of kindness as a kindness rendered unto HIM. The converse is also true, of course.
Personally, I'm a pacifist and wouldn't kill anyone for any reason, but I'm also a sinner, and as such, don't qualify to 'Cast the first stone.' It's unfortunate that most organized religions seem to miss that point in their holy books. The Bible most assuredly states it, as do the holy books of most other mainstream faiths.
It isn't atheists, agnostics, and other non-believers who've committed most of the atrocities against people of faith down through time - organized religion did that - in all of its expressions. Perhaps that is why 'Judgment begins with the Church.' It should. - Jesse.
G'morning!
An apostate is one who has forsaken his previously held to faith and is now actively 'anti' that faith.
I answered 'other' on the poll because I'm a Christian - a missionary, with no particular affiliation and no label other than that of a disciple of Christ. I do not believe that apostates should be killed - by humans, but the Bible does make it clear that *all* who will not give their allegiance to GOD will be destroyed by a 'Second death.' Not tortured in hell (Hebrew = Sheol and Greek = Hades), which simply means the common grave of all mankind, where no one is conscious in any case.
Ge'henna or 'The Lake of Fire,' which simply means 'The second death/eternal (everlasting) destruction)' is the destination of all people who refuse and don't wish to be ruled by God on Earth or in Heaven.
It is worthy of note that God does not wish to destroy *anyone.* 'For I desire that *none* should be destroyed, but that *all* should attain to *repentance.*'
It is God's will that we are all RESTORED to HIM. He desires restoration and 'Mercy, not sacrifice.' God gives us all the *choice* of whether or not to return His Love and live under His Loving Sovereignty forever.
Just as all countries, institutions, and all organized entities - even this forum must have rules in order to avoid chaos, so must God's Kingdom. The rules are simple, 'Love God... and love your neighbor as yourself.' If we can't (or more accurately - don't want to) do that, then we don't get in.
It's heartening to see that more than half of those who've voted, so far, don't want to see believers killed. Christ said, in Matthew 25:40 'To the extent that you do it to the least of these, my brethren, you do it to Me.' So, whatever kindness one shows to those of us who are followers of Christ, however imperfectly we manage to do that, Christ will account that act of kindness as a kindness rendered unto HIM. The converse is also true, of course.
Personally, I'm a pacifist and wouldn't kill anyone for any reason, but I'm also a sinner, and as such, don't qualify to 'Cast the first stone.' It's unfortunate that most organized religions seem to miss that point in their holy books. The Bible most assuredly states it, as do the holy books of most other mainstream faiths.
It isn't atheists, agnostics, and other non-believers who've committed most of the atrocities against people of faith down through time - organized religion did that - in all of its expressions. Perhaps that is why 'Judgment begins with the Church.' It should. - Jesse.
As I understand it, Jews don't even believe in Hell.
Only an egomaniac like Hitler or Stalin would make such demands of allegiance, certainly not a loving god would do.
Clearly, there are no choices to make in your cult, but one. And once again, it is a choice only a cruel and immoral despot would offer.
That sounds very much like the offer Xerxes made to Leonidas.
When choices are offered, they are usually such that the choices will benefit in some way. Hence, when the only choice is eternal damnation, then it is not considered a choice at all. One is simply left with NO alternative. It is the 'gun to the head' type of choice.
In countries, institutions and all organized entities (except cults), the choices are not of the same variety. They don't usually offer a single choice of eternal damnation.
Unfortunately, you were indoctrinated into one of the very same organized religions that caused many of those atrocities resulting in the deaths of millions of people. And you sit here now, promoting it. And all you can offer is a single choice, eternal damnation.
Surely, you can't be serious.
This is exactly how religions use to keep everyone in line and conforming to whatever ideology that religion was preaching. People were tortured and executed for not doing what their religion was telling them to do. Some religions still practice this today. That way people would never speak out about their religion for they lived always in fear . Religion got very big because of that fear.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Yay !
Mao killed about 50 million, Pol Pot, Mussolini, the Japanese
Here is an atlas of twentieth century death tolls. Mostly by atheists
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm
Here is an atlas of twentieth century death tolls. Mostly by atheists
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Yeah, even your convesations are about the extermination of humans. Of course, you wouldn't start with yourself.
You are wrong actually, if I thought it would make a difference, I would.
And I'm not in principle for human extermination.
What a silly question. That would mean that millions of people would have two religions, unless you can show that only atheists are into consumerism.
Well, thats all fine and dandy, as they say, but whence do you derive your authority to bother people with your religious beliefs ? We know it's all in the Bible, so what's new ?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Who do atheists usually kill ? Other atheists, theists or indiscriminately ?
Does it matter? They are all equally dead.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
SAM,
Are you being deliberately obtuse ? Stalin was an atheist who happened to kill people. He, and none of the others you always mention did not kill people for failing to adopt atheism; he did it for political reasons. Hitler did it because he believed in his master race nonsense.
Please don't use your tired old argument again. You should know by now that it is nonsense.
I assume you are aware of the religious conflicts in India at present, which is an example of killing and being killed for religious beliefs..