Dear muslim,

W

WildBlueYonder

Guest
Dear muslim, if you felt you were called to do it by allah, would you fly a plane into a building full of westerners?

What would you do for allah?
Would you lie?
Would you kill?
Would you rape?
Would you plunder?

All this has been done, is being done in the name of islam
Are they right in their application of islam or are you?


here are some excerpts from the quran, with some interesting ones highlighted
from:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/2.htm

Surah 2. The Cow

1. A.L.M.

2. This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
...
216. Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

217. They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.

218. Those who believed and those who suffered exile and fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah,- they have the hope of the Mercy of Allah. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

219. They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider-

220. (Their bearings) on this life and the Hereafter. They ask thee concerning orphans. Say: "The best thing to do is what is for their good; if ye mix their affairs with yours, they are your brethren; but Allah knows the man who means mischief from the man who means good. And if Allah had wished, He could have put you into difficulties: He is indeed Exalted in Power, Wise."

221. Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

222. They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution: So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. But when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by Allah. For Allah loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.

223. Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.

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war, spoils, true friends

here are some thoughts on war, spoils, true friends from the quran

from:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/8.htm
Surah 8. Spoils Of War, Booty
1. They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war. Say: "(such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger. So fear Allah, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe."
….
15. O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them.
16. If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!
17. It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah. when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah.s: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).
18. That, and also because Allah is He Who makes feeble the plans and stratagem of the Unbelievers.
…
30. Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah.
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from:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/5.htm
Surah 5. The Table, The Table Spread
1. O ye who believe! fulfil (all) obligations. Lawful unto you (for food) are all four-footed animals, with the exceptions named: But animals of the chase are forbidden while ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb: for Allah doth command according to His will and plan.
…
51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
52. Those in whose hearts is a disease - thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them, saying: "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." Ah! perhaps Allah will give (thee) victory, or a decision according to His will. Then will they repent of the thoughts which they secretly harboured in their hearts.
53. And those who believe will say: "Are these the men who swore their strongest oaths by Allah, that they were with you?" All that they do will be in vain, and they will fall into (nothing but) ruin.
54. O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.
55. Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).
56. As to those who turn (for friendship) to Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship of Allah that must certainly triumph.

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WildBlueYonder said:
Dear muslim, if you felt you were called to do it by allah, would you fly a plane into a building full of westerners?

What would you do for allah?
Would you lie?
Would you kill?
Would you rape?
Would you plunder?

All this has been done, is being done in the name of islam
Are they right in their application of islam or are you?


here are some excerpts from the quran, with some interesting ones highlighted
from:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/2.htm
Click to expand...

my Christian friend
check out Bible first, then attack muslims
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/BibleViolence.htm
 
Azibey, in which instance are Christians using the Bible to justify their violence worldwide? What percentage are we talking here? Do Christians instead feel it's a violation of their religion to engage in war?
 
GeoffP said:
Azibey, in which instance are Christians using the Bible to justify their violence worldwide? What percentage are we talking here? Do Christians instead feel it's a violation of their religion to engage in war?
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Well, the president said he felt he was chosen by God. And he is a Christian.
 
GeoffP said:
Do Christians instead feel it's a violation of their religion to engage in war?
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If only. When it's appropriate, the New Testement is thrown out the window. And even a one-eyed scan of history will show precedent after precedent. Or should I say president after...
 
Or think how Native Americans might view the notion that Christians think violence is a violation of the big C.
 
True, but it does speak to the idea that Christians consider war a failure of, rather than a tenet of, their religion.

I agree the idea could use a little more adherence, however...
 
Ah, yes - Native Americans might indeed call it hypocritical; or at least, ignored. But that still translates into a violation of the philosophy.
 
Of course Christians, Jews, and Muslims wrote their bible in line with the kind of things they wanted to do anyway, and thus codified a culture which could be successful against other cultures.
 
Maybe so - hardening hearts, Old Testament atherosclerosis and all that - but at the same time the Christian text doesn't say "And kill all the bloody pagan bastards you find". So I dunno, finally. Doesn't mean it doesn't get ignored, of course.
 
GeoffP said:
Maybe so - hardening hearts, Old Testament atherosclerosis and all that - but at the same time the Christian text doesn't say "And kill all the bloody pagan bastards you find". So I dunno, finally. Doesn't mean it doesn't get ignored, of course.
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Yes, it pretty much does!

Deuteronomy 13:6-10
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

There are many others...
 
Ah, but that's OT. NT puts the funky slam-down on all that rot; or so He sayeth.
 
Why do they even include the OT if that's the case? In any case, Jews don't follow the NT.
 
The old testament contains a lot of hateful propaganda that is copied in the Quran. In essence they are the same book.
 
GeoffP said:
Ah, but that's OT. NT puts the funky slam-down on all that rot; or so He sayeth.
Click to expand...


It is supposed to be the eternal Law of God. According to Jesus, it is in full force today. And it says the same thing in the NT just in a different way.

Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
 
That means you don't follow Jesus' teaching unless you are really dissastified with the status quo. It doesn't mean to kill people that encourage you to worship other Gods.
 
That's because Jesus was a revolutionary, who's message needed to be watered down and defiled in order for the ruling elite to maintain power and religious monopoly.
 
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