Dead peasant policies revisited

The long answer

What you call the “business school example” saves the most number of lives. It’s profitable to save lives. Companies in the business of saving or extending life want to do that as much of that as possible so they can make lots of money. How is that unethical?

How many people will die due to bacteria resistant to antibiotics? I don’t know. Should the public or the drug companies spend $10 billion to save 100 people susceptible to the bacteria? Only if that choice makes them the most money. Why? Because otherwise more people will die. Saving 1,000 people for the same $10 billion investment is more profitable. How is that putting a lust for money above common human decency?

Please think about and answer those questions rather than “agree to disagree” which is a cop-out. It’s easy to blame Corporate America. It’s harder to realize that Corporate America is a public invention for the public good. We are fortunate to live in a country that is ruled by the majority. The majority of the people set up what you are complaining about. Ask yourself: Why did they do it? Why do they continue with it and foster it and work for it?

It makes sense that Rutgers thinks Corporate America has no ethics. Because that sentiment is chic in academia and being chic draws students. Lots of students mean lots of revenue for Rutgers. It’s profitable to blame Corporate America if you’re a university! You can bet though that Rutgers tells its corporate donors a different story. Of course that will be Rutgers little secret. The students don’t need to know the administration kisses Corporate America’s White Ass. There’s no good reason to tell them. If told, prospective students will shun Rutgers and they’ll have to dismiss some fine professors they can no longer afford. Much better for everyone involved to shroud the ass kissing in secrecy.

Sure lots of companies are being investigated by the SEC. Lots of investigations mean lots of settlements and fines paid to the SEC. Then they can grow and raise salaries to attract better talent and find even more problems in Corporate America and everyone will be better off. It’s profitable to investigate Corporate America if you’re the SEC! Sure companies are only now rushing to report the existence of COLI policies to the commission. And when the SEC is done with that they’ll demand yet more things in their never-ending quest to improve Corporate America. And the companies will comply as they have done ever since the SEC was founded.

Why was the public not told about COLI? Because it makes Corporate America look bad. Why? For no good reason. The public doesn’t like the “ghoulish” policies. Yet they don’t have enough sense to understand they’re just a tax shelter. The public sure appreciates those gains in their retirement plans though and they sure get mad as hell and sue for big money when a company reports a loss. No wonder Corporate America shrouded those policies in secrecy.

Even though the policies had been hidden from the public, do I blame the working class for not taking action against Corporate America? If the working class = the public, then by all means. After all, they have the Constitutional power to prevent Corporate America from keeping such secrets. They set up Corporate America. Why shouldn’t we hold the inventor responsible? The public is the same inventor who encourages Corporate America to hold all kinds of secrets like trade secrets and cost of goods sold and products under development. There is a list of items Corporate America must keep secret by law, and a slew of them they must not keep secret. COLI was in neither category and now it looks to have been moved into the latter category.

Worldcom and Global Crossing were committing crimes. Investing in COLI is legal. Why do you insist on lumping the two together? Please answer. Honesty is not debatable. The public can end the ethical debate about COLI at any time by making it illegal.

The Wal-Mart exec makes that statement because it’s profitable to make your competition look bad while making your own company look good. It’s a self-serving statement that’s good for business. It’s also true.

For the record I am not “for” Corporate America. I’m a bleeding heart liberal. To resolve any seeming contradiction in that please read again my first sentence in this post.
 
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The short and final reply

You have a problem and I feel sorry for you. God will be your judge. But of course you have no God. You have an inner agenda that has no relevance here. You compulsively strike out verbally in any way you can against anyone and everyone in a futile attempt to display your own perceived intellectual superiority. you have made it apparent that your hidden agenda is your only reason for being here. Farewell
 
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Ah, yes. The "discussion" ends with an ad hominem attack. Point, zanket.

:m: Peace.
 
Goofyfits

Is that what this forum is all about ?"scoring points"? If so you are as sick as your pompus friend. I was trying to express a deep and relevant concern regarding the value of the lives of American workers. And my attack was most appropriate. But of course I get no points.
 
Recap

I will continue to add information to this post as it becomes available. So that those of us who have a respect for the lives of others will be able to continue to learn about the "dead peasant"
life insurance policies that are being taken out on unknowing workers by their employers.
The policies are made payable to the employer and do not in any way benifit the employees. Disney can be added to the list. Even if you only worked for Disney or any of more than 600 companies, part time during the summer1-2-3 4-5-6-7-8 or 9 years ago, there is a life insurance policy on your life. Full time employees are of course in the same situation.
The policies are kept in force until the day you die, even if you have long since left the company.
In some states married people have a policy on themselves their spouse and their children. All benifits are paid to the Employer/Corporation.
For example Winn Dixe, a convenience store chain, carries a $250,000 policy on all of their employees.
In the future I will make my posts in the form of links. If any one wants to debate the links they can contact that link.

http://www.ufcw.net/weekly/archive/Weekly-archive-26-5-2002.html
 
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Can you say yellow journalism? Some quotes within the link immediately above:

It's bad enough that during their working lives, they are subject to all manner of indignity in the name of the almighty dollar, but now it seems that they can contribute to the bottom line even after they're dead and gone.

As loathsome as [dead peasant insurance is] however, it should surprise no one. This is the true essence of capitalism: Maximizing profit. ... Maximizing profit is not just an objective or a goal - it's a duty, the only duty, of corporate officers and directors.

It's clear that dead peasant insurance is within the rules of the game.
Click to expand...

So here we have a site headlined “Members for Democracy” that complains about—of all things—democracy! Earth to author: The majority of the people chose the rules of the game.

Later it becomes apparent that the author misunderstands what democracy is, saying:

Corporations have a special status in our society: That of a super person - one that lives on forever - with no responsibility or accountability to anyone or anything except the almighty dollar.
Click to expand...

No, I’m quite sure that corporations answer to the public in a democracy. The author mentions Enron execs as an example of corporate irresponsibility. Geez, who does the author think is prosecuting those execs? The almighty dollar?
 
Zanket

Please contact the link, perhaps they have a discussion forum there that you can try to dominate. The wealthy minority write the rules in this, and did so in most of the previous century. Have you ever worked in a steel mill as my father did? Have you ever had a friend die in your arms as I have? A friend not killed in combat, but a friend who was killed while operating a machine which had no safety guards to prevent it from ripping his head open. Have you ever been orderd by a corporate/plant manager to scoop up a pool of clotted blood and brain tissue as I have?
You have no idea of the personall degredation and indignities that American workers are subjected to. Can you base any of your comments on a real life experience? Very few Enron executives are being prosecuted, considering that they stole the retirement funds of 20,000 workers. Before they turned out the lights and closed the door a group of Enron Executives borrowed
nearly 2 billion dollars from their "dead peasant policies", and then divided it among themselves. None of them are being investigated.
 
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Originally posted by justiceusa
Please contact the link, perhaps they have a discussion forum there that you can try to dominate.
Click to expand...

I’m happy here at sciforums, thank you.

The wealthy minority write the rules in this, and did so in most of the previous century.
Click to expand...

They dictate the rule-making only so far as the majority lets them. Nothing stops the public from revising the rules.

You have no idea of the personall degredation and indignities that American workers are subjected to. Can you base any of your comments on a real life experience?
Click to expand...

Yes. I’m an American worker for 25 years running. I don’t suffer degradation, which happens only if you allow it. I’m sorry to hear about your friend, but if you didn’t want to scoop up a pool of his clotted blood and brain tissue, why did you?

Before they turned out the lights and closed the door a group of Enron Executives borrowed nearly 2 billion dollars from their "dead peasant policies", and then divided it among themselves. None of them are being investigated.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with dead peasant policies per se? Had the Enron execs stolen the petty cash too, would you denounce petty cash?
 
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Zanket

I scooped up that pool of clotted blood and brain tissue because I had a family to feed and there were no other jobs available. I can only hope that you will have the opportinity to live through a similiar situation, as it is a great educational experience that you will not find in any class room or text book. Please point out specifically who the "majority"of the public really is?? Are they Democrats?, are they republicans?, or maybe independents?? Workers are only the majority based on numbers. Most workers are so stressed just trying to make ends meet from payday to payday that they have neither the time nor the energy to try to make changes. (except in your perfect little world) With the dumbing down of America a great number of young people would not even know were to begin to make changes. I can only try to make it easier for them by giving them information and something to work with such as the link below. As a "bleeding heart liberal" why are you so opposed to that?? In the following link there is a direct link to The US Congress web site. From there you can find and e-mail your representative.
http://www.paceunion.org/julyaugust2002.htm
 
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Moving on

I have decided to move on to another forum. I have been posting to several forums simultaniously and believe me "it aint" easy. All I can do is to keep trying to bring information, on a topic I believe in, to as many people as possible. The next forum I am going to take "peasant to is a conservative one OHH Gawd. I am an old geezer, I get tired easily and my vision sucks. My wife probably thinks I am in here looking at porno. I appologise to anyone whom my posts may have offended, especially Zanket. Ironically without his supurb linguistic replys I feel there woud have been far fewer readers. To the readers I give my sincere thanks. OK OK that raps it up. this aint the Golden Globe awards.:)
 
Move on if you must but let me answer your questions that I already started on.

I scooped up that pool of clotted blood and brain tissue because I had a family to feed and there were no other jobs available.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you made the best choice you could, which makes me wonder: Why did you find it degrading? I don’t mean to be crass. What I’m getting at is that if you make the best choice from the available options, then you have every reason to not feel degraded.

Please point out specifically who the "majority"of the public really is??
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The dictionary says the majority is “the political party, group, or faction having the most power by virtue of its larger representation or electoral strength.” The majority rule applies to any particular candidate or issue. Sometimes a supermajority applies.

Most workers are so stressed just trying to make ends meet from payday to payday that they have neither the time nor the energy to try to make changes.
Click to expand...

Making governmental changes doesn’t require a lot of energy. To initiate change, people first need to inform themselves, and then only a majority of a small percentage of the population need vote or otherwise strongly express their opinion about a particular issue.

Example: Some years ago in my state (Washington) the newspaper reported that milk trucks were doing double duty as gasoline trucks. After dropping off a load of premium unleaded they’d clean the inside and fill it with 2% for the kids. Within a day of the report it became apparent (through phone polls and screaming parents etc.) that the vast majority disapproved of this heretofore “secret” practice. With a week as I recall the state legislature passed a law prohibiting it. Now these trucks may not do double duty.

When the majority wants something done, it can happen fast and with little effort on their part. Often a public vote isn’t required. Representatives seeking re-election are eager to please. It’s an elegant system.

I can only try to make it easier for them by giving them something to work with such as the link below.
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Good idea. I think people should petition their representatives to remove the tax break on COLI. Then the companies will pressure the government to lower the corporate tax rates to make them whole again. The less corporations feel compelled to jump through loopholes, especially controversial ones, the better for the public.

I appologise to anyone whom my posts may have offended, especially Zanket.
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No apology needed for me but thanks. I respect your opinions and enjoyed the exchange.
 
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Zanket

One final thanks, I have learned a lot from you about posting to forums. I am/was a newbie at this. Take Care and try to keep dry up the in the great Northwest.
 
Policies on slaves declared illegal

Life insurance policies held on former slaves have been declared illegal in several states. The companies issuing those policies and the companies who bought the policies are now having to pay the decendants if they can be found. The life insurance policy that your company has on your life (which you are not likely to know about) is still legal in most states.
http://www.voternewsnetwork.com/VNN/newsletters/june102.html
 
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