Dad 'repeatedly walked past dead twins'

[Asguard]

Dad 'repeatedly walked past dead twins'

Adelaide Now

• Court told toddlers died a week ago
• Parents charged over their deaths
• 11-year-old sibling found bodies, court told

THE father of 18-month-old twins did not know they were dead until yesterday, despite having walked past their room many times since they died more than a week ago, a court has been told.

The 28-year-old man and his 30-year-old partner, from Sunnybank Hills in Brisbane, appeared in Brisbane Magistrates Court today charged with failing to provide the necessities of life.

Police found the bodies of the twin boy and girl at the couple's house in Brisbane's south yesterday evening.

Police prosecutor Sergeant Tina Green told the court the man had to walk past the twins' bedroom to get to his own room, where he slept separately from his partner.

Sgt Green said the man told police he had not seen the twins since Christmas.

She told the court it was likely the charges would be upgraded once post-mortem examination results were obtained.

"It's most likely they are heading towards manslaughter or murder charges," she told the court.

Lawyer Michael Cridland, representing the father, said his client was "hardly present at home" and that he had no contact with the twins.

He said the mother was the primary carer and the father took the older children to school before going to work each day.

Mr Cridland said his client had been told of the deaths only yesterday.

The court was earlier told that the decaying bodies of the twins were found by an 11-year-old sibling who smelled something unusual in the room the toddlers rarely left.

Police prosecutor Michelle Clarke told the court today the twins were found in the front bedroom of the rented home.

The 11-year-old then went to the mother and said: "I know why you have been crying now."

When police arrived they found the bodies in a "state of decay" and the children appeared to be malnourished, Ms Clarke said.

The court was told the mother told police in an interview that she noticed the twins were dead on either June 8 or 9.

She told police she had been suffering from a cold and rarely fed or changed the twins.

When asked by police how they died, the mother allegedly said: "I don't think I fed them enough."

One of the children weighed 3.6kg and the other 4kg, and the court was told the children were fed with a bottle only.

The court was told the other four children - who are now in the care of their grandmother - allegedly told police they had rarely seen the twins, who had been kept in the room for most of their lives.

Magistrate Noel Nunan granted the prosecution's application to have the pair held in custody for 48 hours, pending the results of a post-mortem examination.

"The circumstance of the death of two young 18-month-old children is bizarre, given that both the parents had been in the house for approximately one week since their death," Mr Nunan told the court.

A spokesman for Queensland's Department of Child Safety said the twins were not known to the department.

He said the family was reported to the department before the twins were born, but no evidence requiring action was found.

"Where there is no evidence for the department to take action, it has no legal basis to intervene with a family and it would be totally inappropriate for the department to attempt to do so," the spokesman said.

Both were remanded in custody until Thursday.


Viewed 18/06/08 at 8:30

I dont even know how to acuratly assess this case its so discusting. Not only did they neglect there children, they did nothing when they died and they let there 11year old walk in and find the bodies.

I felt physically ill when i saw this

 

[Asguard]

oh and the nabors who ocasionally feed them because they were always hungry, how much effort does it take to pick up a phone and call DOCS?

 

[Orleander]

How long does post-partum depression last?

 

[Asguard]

i dont honestly know when it stops being post partum and slips into just depression

Still i find the actions of the people around this couple the most desterbing of all and they DONT have that excuse

 

[Orleander]

WHAT!? Its the responsibily of the people who don't even live in the house? The people who are in no way related?! Their actions you find most disturbing? Not the Mom's, not the Dad's?
amazing

 

[Asguard]

orelander tell me what you would do if your nabor's child came over all the time hungry asking for food

Would you ignore it?

 

[Orleander]

.... i find the actions of the people around this couple the most desterbing of all.....

More disturbing than the parents who starved them to death?
And considering social services had been called on them before and nothing was done...I think they did considerably more than the parents.

 

[Asguard]

Yea i didnt put that into my post because im not sure if its acurate. Acording to ABC news (on the radio) the family wasnt known to DOCS. However if this story is the acurate acount and they HAD previously had children removed for neglect then i hope those social workers get charged.

And no im not exusing the neglect at all, the police have charged them with "failing to provide the nessasities of life" (in other words death by neglect) but could upgrade it to manslaughter or murder after the autopsy (from ABC news radio interview). I hope for the sake of that girl who walked into find her brothers rotting corpus that they make it murder

This whole case sickens me

 

[Bells]

WHAT!? Its the responsibily of the people who don't even live in the house? The people who are in no way related?! Their actions you find most disturbing? Not the Mom's, not the Dad's?
amazing

This case is bizarre in the extreme.

The neighbours commented to the media last night that they knew something weird was going on in that house, that the children were always coming to their houses asking for food and water. Let me put it to you this way, if your neighbour's child keeps coming to your door begging for food, wouldn't you question why? But then when you think about it, some kids are always hungry, no matter how much they eat. They aren't to blame. How could they have known that the youngest children were being starved to death? The neighbours didn't even know the twins existed.

NEIGHBOURS were stunned of the horror story of two tots who died in silence in their street - because they did not know the twin toddlers had ever existed.

The parents of the 18-month-old toddlers were yesterday charged with two counts each of failing to provide the necessities of life after the tots were found decomposing in their cot.

Yesterday, the only obvious sign the 18-month-old boy and girl lived at the modest brick house with their four siblings was a twin-stroller retrieved by police from inside.

Not even a police officer living in the street suspected anything was seriously wrong at the house, even though some of the children would wander the neighbourhood unsupervised for hours at a time.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Next-door neighbour Nyakong Maying said two boys had climbed the fence into her yard and come into the house asking for food.

"They were nice kids, friendly and wanting to play with my children but I told them to go home. I thought their mother would be wondering where they were," Ms Maying said.

Fiona Ma, another neighbour, said the only encounter she had with the children's mother was a few months ago.

"I was out walking, getting some exercise, when a little boy came running up to me and asked me my name," she said.

"I said 'it's Fiona', but the mother ran out and grabbed him and said 'don't talk'."

Despite police alleging the twins had starved to death over nine months, neighbours said they had not noticed the children crying excessively.

"They were really pretty quiet. I didn't even know there were six kids living there. I only ever saw three boys," Ms Maying said.
(Source)

Not even the older children knew she was starving them.

Neighbours told yesterday of hearing or seeing nothing to indicate anything was amiss.

The twins' short lives were even a mystery to their elder brothers and sister, who rarely saw them outside the room.

The only clues to their existence were a twin stroller and the little pink and blue clothes on the washing line in a backyard strewn with toys.
(Source)

You also have to wonder about other family members and friends who said and did nothing during all this time. It could very well be that the parents kept the mistreatment that well hidden. But there had been reports made about the family to the Department of Child Safety, which also found nothing conclusive in 2006, before the twins were born. Sadly, they failed to do any follow up checks after the twins were born.

"Where there is no evidence for the department to take action, it has no legal basis to intervene with a family, and it would be totally inappropriate for the department to attempt to do so," Child Safety director-general Norelle Deeth said.

But it has been revealed to The Courier-Mail that relatives of the family are well known to the department, including a brother-in-law of the accused parents.

"The extended family has an appalling history of child abuse," a source said.

Questions also have been raised as to why the department did not follow up the births of the twins after the notification in 2006.

"Child Safety already had a briefing note on the parents. They should have looked at the birth of new children," a police officer said.
(Source)

As for the parents themselves. Their lack of care for their children is evident. Their 18 month old twins were the size of newborn babies due to the fact that they were so malnourished. They were, literally, starved to death. They never left their rooms, and were virtually kept in their bedrooms, so that even their siblings rarely ever saw them. The father, supposedly estranged from his partner, never saw them for 6 months (again, supposedly). How can a parent not see his children, while they live in the same house? How is that even possible?

As I said. Bizarre and absolutely tragic.

 

[Asguard]

sickerning bells, not tragic

 

[lucifers angel]

i dont honestly know when it stops being post partum and slips into just depression

Still i find the actions of the people around this couple the most desterbing of all and they DONT have that excuse

you can have depression from child birth onto when the kids are older! post natal depression is so difficutl to shift

 

[lucifers angel]

orelander tell me what you would do if your nabor's child came over all the time hungry asking for food

Would you ignore it?

no i would not, and i have on occassion called social services on a perent that i knew, he would leave his two kids alone for hours somtimes days at an end, while he would drink himself stupid, and his daughter who was just 8yrs old would walk outside in the winter with no shoes on, and little clothing on

 

[Asguard]

UPDATE:

Toddlers' parents charged with murder, torture

ABC News
Posted Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:00pm AEST
Updated Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:12pm AEST

The parents of twin toddlers found dead in their Brisbane home have been charged with murder and torture.

The charges were made against the 30-year-old woman and the 28-year-old man in the Brisbane Magistrates court this afternoon.

The 18-month-old boy and girl were found dead on Monday night in a house at Sunnybank Hills on Brisbane's southside.

The parents were originally charged with failing to provide the necessities of life but the charges were today upgraded.

On Tuesday, the Brisbane Magistrates Court heard the children had been dead for a week before police were notified.

Police allege the children were malnourished.

Prosecutors said the 18-month-old twins weighed just 2.6 and 4 kilograms.

The court heard the mother is accessing mental health services.

Defence lawyers for the pair today won a suppression order on the details of their earlier bail application, on the grounds that some media reports had broken the law by identifying the parents.

Lawyers for the major media organisations, including the ABC, argued against the ruling, and it was overturned.

The pair have been remanded in custody and are due to face court again in August.

I belive (bells may correct me on this) that this is the highest crime they can be charged with, not only murder but torcher as well.

 

[everneo]

..when are you going to stop this torcher.

 

[Bells]

UPDATE:




I belive (bells may correct me on this) that this is the highest crime they can be charged with, not only murder but torcher as well.

It's not surprising that the charges have been upgraded to include murder and torture. The prosecution in this case will be going for the maximum due to the severity of the case and frankly, the public outrage in this case will also weigh into it somewhat. Other evidence has come to light in the media, about the mother's virtual pleas for help on an internet parenting site.

The woman's anguish was revealed yesterday when her postings - including photos of her babies - were found on a popular Australian parents' website.

The 30-year-old mother, who cannot be named, wrote that she was concerned she "sounded selfish" as she bared her soul.

"I would like to know how other parents of large families cope from morning to night," the mother wrote on the Bubhub website.

"I find that I am drowning since I had the twins. I just can't get everything flowing nicely any more in a routine, it is just do whatever, and at the moment it is killing me.

"I put on 30kgs while pregnant with them and haven't lost a thing since having them. It is all just blah.

"I started crying last night when I wanted to go out because in the legs I was fine, it was all the top half, it was all just out there and it looked awful."
(Source)

Here is a photo of the twins, which she posted on the parenting site when she first started posting there months ago:

(Source)

The article also states that she had begun to post this at around the same time that her relationship with her partner was breaking down.

There was a mention in the media last night that starvation may not have been the cause of the children's death. There are other issues in this case which are bizarre in the extreme. I suspect it will come to light soon enough.

 

[Asguard]

i saw the story on the internet web board but never herd anything about the cause of death being anything other than stavation. Do you have a link to that?

Im a little concerned that the mother will get off by saying it was PND and all the blame will fall on the father (because depression of fathers isnt well accepted in the wider comunity yet). I did agree with the psycologist that its a sad state of affairs when there isnt anyone a parent can turn to for help if they are overwhelmed.

I guess we will know in a couple of years

 

[everneo]

in a couple of years ?

 

[Asguard]

when the court case is compleated

 

[Bells]

i saw the story on the internet web board but never herd anything about the cause of death being anything other than stavation. Do you have a link to that?

Im a little concerned that the mother will get off by saying it was PND and all the blame will fall on the father (because depression of fathers isnt well accepted in the wider comunity yet). I did agree with the psycologist that its a sad state of affairs when there isnt anyone a parent can turn to for help if they are overwhelmed.

I guess we will know in a couple of years

It was briefly mentioned in the Brisbane news last night. I have yet to see it verified in print in any online news service.

Could it be PND? Who knows. I guess they'll have to delve into the treatment of the other children before the twins were born. It was before the twin's birth that the Child Safety Department were called in to investigate possible abuse when one of the other children came to school with a suspicious injury. But they found the claim to be unsubstantiated.

And you're wrong Asguard. There are places for parents who are in trouble to turn to for help. Especially in instances where there is PND and where a parent fears they could harm their child. She could have gone to her doctors with her concerns or just walked into a hospital emergency ward.

Even with PND, there is no excuse for those children to have been starved and left in the state they had been. As for the father's role.. you're telling me he was that disinterested that he never once even looked in on his children in over 6 months? That he walked past their door without once looking at them for over 6 months? What of other family members? No one noticed?

As I said, there are issues in this case that go beyond being bizarre. She may have suffered PND (I understand she is also on suicide watch at the present time because they fear she will try to take her own life). It still does not excuse her behaviour, nor does it excuse the father as well. Those children had never been fed solid food. They were 18 months old. She only fed them milk or formula every once in a while.

Again, the prosecution will be going for the maximum and quite rightly so. They both refused psych consults prior to their first court hearings. At the end of the day, those two children died horrible deaths while in the care of their parents.

 

[lepustimidus]

What's the bet that the parents were well fed?