Corona Virus 2019-nCoV

billvon said:
Yep.

One big issue is whether they can survive drying. Most viruses can't, so the time they can survive* in an aerosol depends on how long it takes for the droplets to evaporate. And since they are small they evaporate fairly fast.

(* - viruses aren't alive to begin with but you know what I mean.)
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The droplets of viral water evaporate into what?
 
billvon said:
Yep.

One big issue is whether they can survive drying. Most viruses can't, so the time they can survive* in an aerosol depends on how long it takes for the droplets to evaporate. And since they are small they evaporate fairly fast.

(* - viruses aren't alive to begin with but you know what I mean.)
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OK. But from what I have read, common cold viruses and flu can survive for a while in the dry nuclei -salts, dried mucus and viruses, I suppose - left behind when an aerosol droplet evaporates and it is this that some seem to treat as "airborne transmission", as opposed to the inhalation of wet aerosol droplets from a person close by, which is sometimes called "direct"......not to be confused with contact transmission which is by actual touch.

But while some articles I have read speak of these three different modes (airborne, direct, contact), others lump wet aerosols and dry evaporated nuclei together, calling both of them "airborne", leaving just two options: airborne and contact. It seems rather inconsistent.
 
Quantum Quack said:
The droplets of viral water evaporate into what?
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The air, obviously.

Because the droplets are not pure water, this leaves behind a very tiny dry nucleus, composed I imagine of dried mucus, salts and viruses. These particles are so small they do not settle out of the air, so they waft around. The issue then is how long dry viruses in this state can remain active. This depends on the virus.
 
exchemist said:
It sounds to me as if you are confusing the size of the virus with the aerosol droplet itself.
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perhaps try this:
If the virus can survive in water droplets of 10 microns or less it is considered as airborne aerosol. ( via water vapor) (inhaled direct lung transmission)
If the virus can not survive in water droplets of 10 microns or less but in larger droplets >20 microns it is considered as direct/contact transmission. ( expectorant, spittle, nasal spray, touch digestion)
 
exchemist said:
The air, obviously.

Because the droplets are not pure water, this leaves behind a very tiny dry nucleus, composed I imagine of dried mucus, salts and viruses. These particles are so small they do not settle out of the air, so they waft around. The issue then is how long dry viruses in this state can remain active.
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yes and no... the water droplet evaporates into water vapor. If the virus can survive in water vapor it becomes an aerosol/airborne. If it can not survive in water vapor it is not considered as airborne.
 
Quantum Quack said:
perhaps try this:
If the virus can survive in water droplets of 10 microns or less it is considered as airborne aerosol. ( via water vapor) (inhaled direct lung transmission)
If the virus can not survive in water droplets of 10 microns or less but in larger droplets >20 microns it is considered as direct/contact transmission. ( expectorant, spittle, nasal spray, touch digestion)
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Why would a virus find conditions inside a 10 micron droplet different from those in a 20 micron droplet?

A difference between wet and dry I can understand, but not between 10 and 20 microns, given that the virus itself is one or two orders of magnitude smaller than either.
 
Quantum Quack said:
yes and no... the water droplet evaporates into water vapor. If the virus can survive in water vapor it becomes an aerosol/airborne. If it can not survive in water vapor it is not considered as airborne.
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This makes no sense. Water vapour is a gas. It mixes completely with the surrounding air. There is no water vapour phase for a virus to live in.

Furthermore the droplets themselves are already an aerosol. So it is not a question of something "becoming" an aerosol when the water evaporates. A wet aerosol becomes a dry one, that's all.

You seem not to understand the terms you are using.
 
exchemist said:
This makes no sense. Water vapour is a gas. It mixes completely with the surrounding air. There is no water vapour phase for a virus to live in.

Furthermore the droplets themselves are already an aerosol.

You seem not to understand the terms you are using.
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You are the one asking the questions not me...
watch this video again. It can't get much clearer than that...

google "water vapor size"

then google "CO2 size"or O2 size..
 
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Quantum Quack said:
You are the one asking the questions not me...
watch this video again. It can't get much clearer than that...

google "water vapor size"
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"Water vapour size" is a meaningless term. I'm certainly not going to google that.

And actually the video is very badly explained - as videos almost always are, compared to the printed word. The speaker does not clarify whether he is talking of wet or dry aerosol when he speaks of "airborne", as opposed to what he calls "droplet" transmission. He just says airborne involves particles <10 micron that travel longer distances. Which makes sense but does not address the issue of what limits the ability of the virus to stay active in such aerosols.

From what I have read - which also fits what billvon says - it is whether the particles are wet or dry, and then whether the virus can stay active when dry, that determines this.
 
exchemist said:
"Water vapour size" is a meaningless term. I'm certainly not going to google that.

And actually the video is very badly explained - as videos almost always are, compared to the printed word. The speaker does not clarify whether he is talking of wet or dry aerosol when he speaks of "airborne", as opposed to what he calls "droplet" transmission. He just says airborne involves particles <10 micron that travel longer distances. Which makes sense but does not address the issue of what limits the ability of the virus to stay active in such aerosols.

From what I have read - which also fits what billvon says - it is whether the particles are wet or dry, and then whether the virus can stay active when dry, that determines this.
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suit your self...
 
Quantum Quack said:
The droplets of viral water evaporate into what?
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Water vapor. And bits of dried virus. Which, often, kills the virus. (One reason that sputum and blood are more dangerous, because they take longer to completely dry out since there are a lot of solids in there.)
 
billvon said:
Water vapor. And bits of dried virus. Which, often, kills the virus. (One reason that sputum and blood are more dangerous, because they take longer to completely dry out since there are a lot of solids in there.)
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are you claiming that a virus can not survive in water vapor droplets between 10-15 microns in size?
 
Quantum Quack said:
can you support your claim by way of links please.

I believe you will be hard pressed to find one virologist let alone every virologist to agree...
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Billvon has been saying and quoting what the people studying and advising on this have been saying right from the start, unlike you. For example:

billvon said:
No, it's not a mutation. That's how it works, the same way most such viruses work. From the CDC a week ago:
"Person-to-person spread is thought to occur mainly via respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes, similar to how influenza and other respiratory pathogens spread. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs."
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You disputed him on this, despite his quoting the CDC.

In fact, you went on to troll and you are still trolling, by deliberately misrepresenting what people are saying. It is despicable.
 
Bells said:
Billvon has been saying and quoting what the people studying and advising on this have been saying right from the start, unlike you. For example:



You disputed him on this, despite his quoting the CDC.

In fact, you went on to troll and you are still trolling, by deliberately misrepresenting what people are saying. It is despicable.
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Ok I take that is a no. You can not support your claim that
Bells said:
What Billvon has been saying is what every other expert is saying.
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Personal observation: Any one who challenges you is a troll and despicable...

If you do not wish to discuss the topic in a reasonable and objective fashion then don't.
 
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billvon said:
The question you asked, which was "The droplets of viral water evaporate into what?" The answer to that is "water vapor, and bits of dried virus."

Now, did you have a different question?
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oh I see... yes... ok then the following question in post #134
Quantum Quack said:
are you claiming that a virus can not survive in water vapor droplets between 10-15 microns in size?
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? Yes or No would suffice...
 
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