Corona Virus 2019-nCoV

[billvon]

I did not introduce the monetary aspects of this pandemic into the conversation. My posts were in response to someone else's remarks about the economic consequences.

Normally, in a conversation, posts follow in a logical order. A post on how evolution works, for example, might be followed by a question on how evolution works, a disagreement, or a comment about a different part of evolution. It would not make sense to then start attacking the Pope because you don't like him and he said something about evolution works. The most sensible thing to do, if you want to attack the Pope, would be to start a new thread.

But if you want to stay on topic. Then instead of beating around the bush and engage in a serious discussion on viral diseases, can you tell me how viruses manage to use the host's cell mitotic machinery?

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=human+virus+reproduction

 

[exchemist]

Normally, in a conversation, posts follow in a logical order. A post on how evolution works, for example, might be followed by a question on how evolution works, a disagreement, or a comment about a different part of evolution. It would not make sense to then start attacking the Pope because you don't like him and he said something about evolution works. The most sensible thing to do, if you want to attack the Pope, would be to start a new thread.

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=human virus reproduction

Er, yes. Quod erat demonstrandum.

P.S. But note how close post 1000 is getting to introducing....

....[drum roll] .....

.....microtubules!!

 

[Quantum Quack]

From your link.
And what pray tell is that mitotic replication machinery? (drum roll).....microtubules!!.....

What Are the Main Function of Microtubules in the Cell?
https://sciencing.com/main-function-microtubules-cell-8552402.html

I am not satisfied with generalities such as "replication machinery". It begs the question what exactly is that machinery, no? If you had followed any of what I posted about microtubules, you would have known this and we could have had a good discussion on exactly how a virus manages to hijack microtubules for its own purposes. That would be clearly in your ball park and very pertinent to the OP.
Instead you dismiss the possibility out of hand , without giving at a second thought. It bemuses me, why?

Eh!? Don't worry about em Write4u they are just playing games and doing their favorite sport of bullying. Teasing is the name of the game, but bullying is what it is about.
The problem with talking at the detailed level you wish to discuss is that they simply have no real interest in discussing anything to start with. Probably bored with lockdown and like most bullies get their joy out of someone else's discomfort.
As you may have noticed productive contribution to this thread is lacking, sniping from a distance at anything that may appear vulnerable. A bit like the opportunistic nature of this virus...attacking the most vulnerable and causing real harm in the mean time...
You may recall their responses to this thread when I started it a few months ago...underestimating the seriousness of the situation is not their own province sadly, as the world is starting to find out.

Even now the world is still underestimating the threat, even with the apparent level of vigilance and action...
There are factors about this disease that the public world has not taken the time to look at. This is understandable given the pace that the worlds medical scientists have had to work at and the degree of change in their own lives that they have had to endure. So no bad on them. IMO.

Examples:

• The disparity between the spread in China and the USA (a glaring example IMO of anomalous data see my post #995)
  
• The possibility of Zoonotic transmission: human to animal to human and the threat to food supply.
  
• The possibility of undetectable micro infections being incubated for months before aggressively taking hold.
• What role does clinical anxiety play in the progression of the disease in humans.
  
• How 5G microwave emissions make people stupid enough to blame 5G for causing this virus. lol

to name a few...

 

[Quantum Quack]

On a positive note , if there can be such a thing in this disaster.
The idea of micro infections laying relatively dormant slowly incubating allows the possibility of heard immunity being acquired by those who recover from minor infection or infections not experienced consciously.
For instance exchemist experience mentioned in another thread may actually be a blessing ( if you fully recover) as you may have gone through a natural inoculation as have 320,000 other globally.
Heard immunity is not new news of course...but
People who are currently experiencing what they think is a persistent low grade common head cold may be actually going through a process of self-inoculation against COVID-19.

That being said the recovery numbers of 320,000 (today) may actually be significantly understated...

This bodes well IMO

 

[Write4U]

I sincerely hope so and I offered my perspective only in the spirit of research to find solutions to these pathogens.
And I wish exchemist a speedy and complete recovery..... sincerely!

 

[Bells]

From your link.
And what pray tell is that mitotic replication machinery? (drum roll).....microtubules!!.....

What Are the Main Function of Microtubules in the Cell?
https://sciencing.com/main-function-microtubules-cell-8552402.html

I am not satisfied with generalities such as "replication machinery". It begs the question what exactly is that machinery, no? If you had followed any of what I posted about microtubules, you would have known this and we could have had a good discussion on exactly how a virus manages to hijack microtubules for its own purposes. That would be clearly in your ball park and very pertinent to the OP.
Instead you dismiss the possibility out of hand , without giving at a second thought. It bemuses me, why?

Again?

Can you not? It's as though you cannot help yourself. You are obsessed. It has nothing to do with this thread.

Er, yes. Quod erat demonstrandum.

P.S. But note how close post 1000 is getting to introducing....

....[drum roll] .....

.....microtubules!!

Please don't. I have already had to move one post out of this thread.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Good Friday Sit. rep. 10/04/2020
Total confirmed cases:
1,603,428
95,714 Fatalities
356,440 Recovered

Total number of recorded and confirmed active cases:
1,151,274 (49,125: severe and critical)

CC to CFR: 5.97%
notes: the CFR will probably fall as testing becomes more randomized and not imported specific.

Too many hot spots to record here.
Places to watch:
Turkey
Russia
India ( potentially massive issue)
Indonesia
Brazil ( South-Central America Generally)

and China as it appears to be entering a second wave after relaxing it's quarantine rules and attempts to restart it's economy.

Also worth noting that as India goes further into confusion their capacity to export low cost commodities will reduce leading to inflationary pressure. (TV)
The capacity of the world to deal with the displaced persons, climate change events and AGW generally has been dramatically reduced. (Radio)
Humanitarian aid appears to becoming scarce as nations deal with their own economic circumstances. (TV)
We have just had the devastation of Vanuatu- Tonga region due to a cat5+ cyclone (Harold) and so far there has been little mention of an Australian Government response in Australia.

A number of Australian politicians have publicly expressed anger and concern at the incompetence and negligence of the Chinese Government in dealing with this outbreak and to put in place regulations/education that prevent it.

My position is that:
If the Chinese government can go to great lengths to forcibly reeducate the Uighurs due to their religious beliefs then they can reeducate those that traditionally enjoy wet market live animals ( especially Bats) and stress the need to prevent further outbreaks associated with food handling.
There should be no excuse for not containing the next outbreak.

 

[Write4U]

Can you not? It's as though you cannot help yourself. You are obsessed. It has nothing to do with this thread.

Then, please tell me what this thread is all about if not about the Coronavirus and its properties and behaviors and how viruses manage to hijack the cell's mitotic abilities to propagate. Should science not pay any attention to that?

Or do you think that I am talking woo? Is that it? Clearly you have not bothered to do any reading on the subject.

 

[wegs]

My concern is that Americans will grow tired of waiting around, and will go back to business as usual ...too quickly. Doctors warn that this is a very bad idea, but Americans sometimes do as they please.

 

[geordief]

My concern is that Americans will grow tired of waiting around, and will go back to business as usual ...too quickly. Doctors warn that this is a very bad idea, but Americans sometimes do as they please.

That is a concern everywhere. So far ,so good but it remains to be seen how long we can hold out against what is ,in some sense an invisible enemy.

I also wonder what will be the effect on populations that lack the deep pockets and resources of wealthy countries

How will this affect Africa for example?Is there a chance the virus will not thrive so well in hotter countries?( there is talk of it being seasonal but it is not properly researched yet I think)

 

[Quantum Quack]

My concern is that Americans will grow tired of waiting around, and will go back to business as usual ...too quickly. Doctors warn that this is a very bad idea, but Americans sometimes do as they please.

I think it is almost a given, that many people will not see the immediate threat unless it is in their face so to speak. It only takes one super spreader and we have lost containment/mitigation and restriction will have to be reapplied but heavier...

Here people are already starting to get restless.
Inevitably the foolish will die, the smart ones will look after themselves..and survive...
Social distancing etc only minimizes the risk. But with out it you maximize it...

The same problem applies to AGW except it is over a longer time span...until it become immediate and obvious people wont act to save them selves. Playing lip service to the science in both instances will inevitably lead to further tragedy.

Wanting their cake and eat it as well is endemic to human psychology...
One thing for sure is that border controls will remain at least ( I would hope)
India and Africa have yet to really get started...

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I don't know why masks are not compulsory.

Certainly when restrictions ease just slip it in...sure you can go out on one condition you must have a mask. Whats so difficult about that? Heck you ride a bike you wear a helmet, etc.


So if there is a carrier the chances that he/she will pass it on are substantially reduced.


Alex

 

[Seattle]

I don't think masks do that much for people who aren't sneezing or coughing. I do think that with masks some people will think less about going out when they should still only do so when it makes sense.

For example it wouldn't make sense to put on a mask and now go to watch some sports event in a enclosed stadium.

Masks also aren't comfortable for long periods of time. It makes it harder to breath. I think they have a place but I don't know that they should be mandatory ...just cause...

 

[billvon]

Then, please tell me what this thread is all about if not about the Coronavirus and its properties and behaviors and how viruses manage to hijack the cell's mitotic abilities to propagate. Should science not pay any attention to that?

You're like the guy who manages to slip a reference to Amway into every third sentence.

"Hey, I'm not here to talk about Amway, not at all. Sure, it's made me rich, but it's not for everyone. Unless you want to know more. Do you? No? Well, OK, I will stop talking about Amway, the investment that made me rich. So . . . uh . . . want to go to dinner? I'll buy, because Amway."

 

[Quantum Quack]

I don't think masks do that much for people who aren't sneezing or coughing. I do think that with masks some people will think less about going out when they should still only do so when it makes sense.

For example it wouldn't make sense to put on a mask and now go to watch some sports event in a enclosed stadium.

Masks also aren't comfortable for long periods of time. It makes it harder to breath. I think they have a place but I don't know that they should be mandatory ...just cause...

How different do you think the situation in NYC would have been if the wearing of masks was made mandatory when they announced the shut down?

 

[billvon]

How different do you think the situation in NYC would have been if the wearing of masks was made mandatory when they announced the shut down?

Probably a little different. Keep in mind that it doesn't do much to protect you from the virus - but it can prevent carriers from transmitting it. At that point most people already had it, so it wouldn't have made a huge difference. But it would have made some.

 

[Seattle]

How different do you think the situation in NYC would have been if the wearing of masks was made mandatory when they announced the shut down?

Believe me, if I lived in NYC I would be wearing a mask. Most places I go I can maintain proper separation.

 

[Quantum Quack]

At that point most people already had it, so it wouldn't have made a huge difference

You could probably work it out to get an idea using available stats.
The New York City went into lock down on the: 22nd of March, 2020 ( Hypothetically masks are mandatory)
add 14 days for incubation period, the pre-mask infection peak would have occurred by 5th of April 2020.
Any cases after that would reflect the wearing of masks.
It is now 5 days after the pre-mask infection peak.

Austria:

Austria is to join a small but growing number of European countries making the wearing of face masks outside the home compulsory amid shifting debate over the medical gear’s protective utility. Authorities would start distributing millions of free face masks at the entrances to all supermarkets from midweek onwards, chancellor Sebastian Kurz announced on Monday. Shoppers will only be permitted inside supermarkets and other open stores, such as pharmacies, if they are wearing masks. While masks are a familiar sight throughout Asia, the only other countries in Europe to require the wearing of masks in public space are Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Bosnia-Herzegovina.​

Czech Republic:

According to official sources in the Czech republic the spread of the virus can be reduced by 80% by simply using a face covering like a mask, towel etc..
Wearing a simple cloth mask, decreases the spread of the virus by 80 %! Czech Republic has made it OBLIGATORY for its citizens to wear a mask in the public.​

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ing-masks-after-government-decree-coronavirus

Believe me, if I lived in NYC I would be wearing a mask. Most places I go I can maintain proper separation.

You do understand that it is not about you maintaining separation only but about others doing the same?
It is about others spitting on you as they speak or breath or cough etc...
and you spitting on them as you speak, cough , sneeze or other ....

"I protect you as you protect me" sort of thing...ie...

Also shutting the gate ( Putting on a mask) after the horse has bolted is not going to be much help is it?

So in a pandemic, when is the best time to start using a mask?
After people start dropping dead around you or before? ( rhetorical)

 

[Quantum Quack]

You're like the guy who manages to slip a reference to Amway into every third sentence.

"Hey, I'm not here to talk about Amway, not at all. Sure, it's made me rich, but it's not for everyone. Unless you want to know more. Do you? No? Well, OK, I will stop talking about Amway, the investment that made me rich. So . . . uh . . . want to go to dinner? I'll buy, because Amway."

tell me you don't work for AMWAY billvon....oh my gosh! Any excuse...You mentioned AMWAY three times...in your post....lol

 

[Seattle]

You could probably work it out to get an idea using available stats.
The New York City went into lock down on the: 22nd of March, 2020 ( Hypothetically masks are mandatory)
add 14 days for incubation period, the pre-mask infection peak would have occurred by 5th of April 2020.
Any cases after that would reflect the wearing of masks.
It is now 5 days after the pre-mask infection peak.

Austria:

Austria is to join a small but growing number of European countries making the wearing of face masks outside the home compulsory amid shifting debate over the medical gear’s protective utility. Authorities would start distributing millions of free face masks at the entrances to all supermarkets from midweek onwards, chancellor Sebastian Kurz announced on Monday. Shoppers will only be permitted inside supermarkets and other open stores, such as pharmacies, if they are wearing masks. While masks are a familiar sight throughout Asia, the only other countries in Europe to require the wearing of masks in public space are Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Bosnia-Herzegovina.​

Czech Republic:

According to official sources in the Czech republic the spread of the virus can be reduced by 80% by simply using a face covering like a mask, towel etc..
Wearing a simple cloth mask, decreases the spread of the virus by 80 %! Czech Republic has made it OBLIGATORY for its citizens to wear a mask in the public.​

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ing-masks-after-government-decree-coronavirus


You do understand that it is not about you maintaining separation only but about others doing the same?
It is about others spitting on you as they speak or breath or cough etc...
and you spitting on them as you speak, cough , sneeze or other ....

"I protect you as you protect me" sort of thing...ie...

Also shutting the gate ( Putting on a mask) after the horse has bolted is not going to be much help is it?

So in a pandemic, when is the best time to start using a mask?
After people start dropping dead around you or before? ( rhetorical)

If I am maintaining separation then that implies that I'm making sure that others do the same (or I simply move further away).

A mask isn't a bad idea, in most cases, it's just not a panacea and it may encourage more aggressive behavior. In a crowded place I would use a mask but I would try to avoid a crowded place.

That's hard to do in some countries/cities. It's not hard for me to do where I live however.