Congo Civil War still killing, 6 years after truce

S.A.M. said:
:bravo:

Is the white man's burden terribly heavy?
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Too heavy for Teh Natives, I'm afraid. Maybe Atlas should throw the burden off his shoulders, huh? Oh wait, but then the skies will fall and everyone but Whitey would die! :eek:

Jealousy's a motherfucker, SAM. Remind me again, why are you not in India and/or the "Kingdom" of Saudi Arabia, but the U S and A?
 
otheadp said:
Too heavy for Teh Natives, I'm afraid. Maybe Atlas should throw the burden off his shoulders, huh? Oh wait, but then the skies will fall and everyone but Whitey would die! :eek:

Jealousy's a motherfucker, SAM. Remind me again, why are you not in India and/or the "Kingdom" of Saudi Arabia, but the U S and A?
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Your simplistic attitude only betrays your ignorance of the current economic system.
 
So far it's been Fraggle and SAM providing all the circumstances and context, and a bunch of very lazy and argument-free discomfitted folks attacking the messenger.

john said:
Food dumping? Sending hungry people food is dumping??? Thats a new one
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No it's not. Destroying the local agricultural economy, driving people off farms into cities without jobs, and making everyone dependent on their connections to a central (and "business-friendly" ) dictatorship for basics like food, is not new.
 
iceaura said:
So far it's been Fraggle and SAM providing all the circumstances and context, and a bunch of very lazy and argument-free discomfitted folks attacking the messenger.

No it's not. Destroying the local agricultural economy, driving people off farms into cities without jobs, and making everyone dependent on their connections to a central (and "business-friendly" ) dictatorship for basics like food, is not new.
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Thats your fantasy. Poor people existed long, long before the U.S was around so you want to sum it all up with outrageous claims. Well that is not helping them.
 
iceaura said:
No it's not. Destroying the local agricultural economy, driving people off farms into cities without jobs, and making everyone dependent on their connections to a central (and "business-friendly" ) dictatorship for basics like food, is not new.
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HAHAHAHAHA

OK there, Smart Person!

I think westerner technocrat specialists might have just a tad bit more experience in running organizations and large projects than the average African dictator (or any dictator...). I know the guilt eating at you won't let you believe that, because that would mean placing some sort of responsibility on those poor African primitive peoples, and that is so completely ethnocentric... we can't have that.

I also think that this isn't the right direction to which to take this discussion. It's not about Africans (or cracka ass crackaz) mis-utilizing the aid money (a discussion which should take place in the context of the "palestinian" aid packages), but about the fact that there isn't enough aid to that part of the world, or any attention paid to it.

John99 said:
Oh, here comes iceaura protecting his internet girlfriend.
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If you ever make me spit out the juice on my keyboard + screen again I will be very very angry!:roflmao:
 
ohteadp said:
I think westerner technocrat specialists might have just a tad bit more experience in running organizations and large projects than the average African dictator
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So you agree with SAM that this whole scene is largely the fault of the Western "technocrat specialists",

of which, unlike you, she provided examples to support her point ?

otheadp said:
I also think that this isn't the right direction to which to take this discussion. It's not about Africans (or cracka ass crackaz) mis-utilizing the aid money (a discussion which should take place in the context of the "palestinian" aid packages), but about the fact that there isn't enough aid to that part of the world, or any attention paid to it.
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The people SAM quoted have been paying a lot of attention to it, including to the nature of the aid supplied. Don't they count ? (They seem to disagree with your assessments, btw -
 
Snarkiness aside, I think that the fault lies within western governments for not providing more money to Congo (and other problematic regions) instead of throwing it away on the turtle-slaughtering cause celebre. If the technocrats weren't there it would've been much worse. Instead of 700,000 dead in 15 months it would have been easily twice or threefold than that.

As for "destroying the local farming economies", assuming that those local economies were indeed destroyed by the actions of western technocrats and not by the violence, were inefficient in the first place, which is the reason for the famine there. A large-scale trading economy is the way to bring poor primitive countries out of their predicament, not the other way around, as you seem to suggest.

Now what has to happen is for all the UN agencies solely aimed at the "palestinians" should be disbanded, and all of their money should be chanelled towards Congo. That way in 15 months there won't be another 700,000 dead Africans.
 
otheadp said:
One of the biggest reasons why these people need western help is because they are so damn primitive and superstitious. When 80% of them prefer the witch doctor over western medicine, no wonder they're dying like flies. They're too stupid (yes I said stupid) for their own good.

And we have this irrelevant fool here with the khutzpah to lecture the west for trying to help. :rolleyes:

The impatient and rightly irritated western citizen should say "you don't want it? Then go fuck yourself and keep dying. I don't need this shit".

And aren't there enough poor people in the west that need this aid anyway?
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Nonsense, they use western medicine when they can get it, but lately it's not safe for western volunteer doctors to go there in useful numbers. They know how to farm, they are mostly educated, but they have few opportunities to use their education.
 
spidergoat said:
Nonsense, they use western medicine when they can get it, but lately it's not safe for western volunteer doctors to go there in useful numbers. They know how to farm, they are mostly educated, but they have few opportunities to use their education.
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That is truly sad. I doubt about the Congolese being educated enough, given the civil war and there not being any meaningful work and education infrastructure, but they can surely learn all the careers that westerners have... as soon as the war ends.

What needs to happen is for a western military occupation + Marshall Plan to FORCE the locals to stop butchering each other, and to CREATE an economy, then gradually hand over control to the locals.
 
John99 said:
There is over 4 million in U.S alone.
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Those four million are lazy losers who suck off welfare. They lack the genetics or moral fiber or perhaps they're too old, young, frail or sick to make it in a capitalist environment.
 
Roman said:
Cynicism.
Competition creates a loser class.
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So a lower class is an inherent phenomenon in capitalist societies. Sad but true... but the alternative is to have no competition and only have 1 class, which is dirt poor. Lesser of the evils, my friend.

An interesting discussion for another thread :)
 
From this link, you'll see more of what I was talking about with regards to the fear and distrust that helps to keep Africa wallowing in its own crapulence.

Greenpeace showing their true colors here:

Journalist Kerry Howley of the Reason magazine has written a very riveting and informative article on how fear is being used to deny Africa cutting-edge technologies. Howley writes how activists descend on Africa every time new technologies emerge. They, using apocalyptic theories, misadvise and mislead Africans into not embracing these technologies.

Africans are usually warned of cataclysmic consequences if they adopt new technologies. Usually, they’re told the West wants to use them as guinea pigs, or to enslave them. Most play along, thanks to high illiteracy levels and unavailability and/or access to alternative sources of information. Always the consequences are grave: the rest of the world prospers, while Africa wallows in poverty. Essentially, Africa merely gawks as other countries industrialize.

Howley beautifully illustrates this point using the swirling debate about genetically modified (GM) foods. She writes how African countries have shunned GM foods on the advice of consumer advocacy groups such as the Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth. These groups happen to have a big presence in Africa

Except South Africa, no other African country is currently growing genetically modified (GM) crops. We’ve read reports of countries like Zambia and Zimbabwe turning away food from the World Food Program (WFP) and the United States Agency for International Development (USaid) on suspicions they contain genetically modified organisms (GMOs.) Many African countries have passed laws to completely bar GM crops.

How indefensible is it to argue against technology that would help save lives? Oh, and this article was posted three days ago, not eight years ago, fwiw.


http://www.gmoafrica.org/2008/04/journalist-counsels-africa-on-gmos.html
 
What if Africans don't want GM food? Why won't the west send normal food?

To be fair, the effects GM food can have on the body are unknown.
 
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