Come TheMidnight12AM - Common Ground

[stretched]

Quote Vincent28uk:
“all donated by the west
do you at all understand the level of corruption taking place in africa and the middle east
there is no way to solve the povert and to feed the starving people until these asshole leaders are behind bars, etc, etc”

* You are fucking with my serenity gayboy! Do you want to get involved in a discussion on the effects of British Imperialism, and the lasting crap this has caused in Africa and elsewhere? The British Imperialist/ Christian Missionary self righteous enslavement of so called savages? And now you gibber on about corruption and starvation? Where the fuck do you think this all started gaper? Can you take it like a MAN?

 

[ellion]

Peace.

thank you.

 

[Cottontop3000]

thank you.

you're very welcome.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Who's Tony Robbins?

I hope I spelled his name right. I think his first name is actually Anthony, but he is a very highly respected motivational speaker here in the U.S. Speaks to all the rich and famous.

P.S. Sorry to put so much potential pressure on you by putting your name in this thread title. It's just that you were one of the few who I think understood where I was coming from in the "Why are you ARGUING about God?" thread. Wanted to hear more. Thanks.

 

[Cottontop3000]

hows human race,for starters,...we are all part of it.

My thought exactly.

how we do this?...first,tax the churches,its a business like any other so why should it be exempt,

Doubt it could be done. Who has the power right now?

(anyway didnt JC teach to give all your money to the poor,?
does the Pope,Billy Graham ,Jerry Fartwell or any of those millionare televangelists follow His teachings...like fuck!!they shear the poor dumb sheep for everything they can!!)

Nice sentiment but I am trying to be more understanding of everyone, not just those who think like I do.

then make it illegal to spread hate,lies and unsuported concepts such as ID cretinism as science or truth..

I don't want to make it illegal, because that sounds too much like Orwell's 1984, but more frowned-upon. Like racism is becoming.

when it comes to religions people should believe whatever they want ..,freedom of religion,..
just keep it to yourselfs=dont proselytize,
..freedom from religion!..

Yeah, something like that.

also they have to avoid preaching such hatefull propaganda that different beliefs are wrong,evil etc.otherwise people/nations will never get along

Exactly, but I think this is the hardest part, just because of what we are like as humans, in general. How do we motivate people to stop hating, to stop their arrogance?

you never fail until you stop trying!

Thanks. You're right.

capitalism at its best..

Yes, why do you think the West was so against Communism? I've always wondered that. Do you think it was just because of Stalin? Or because it threatened their own ideas? Or because it was inherently flawed? Or what?

well, look at the bright side,its never too cold there so you dont need to spend much money on heating oil,do ya?

SHIT!!! In west Texas, where I am, it does snow every winter, though it only stays on the ground for a week or so at a time, unlike Maine and New York (where I have also lived) where it stays for months at a time. In west Texas, though, we are at about the same lattitude as Casablanca, Damascus, Baghdad, Islamabad, and Nanjing. However, believe me, it does get cold here. We use natural gas here for heating, as opposed to other parts of the U.S. and world that use heating oil.

btw
isnt Texas highly religious?
someone once said that religion stops the thinking mind,
so how do you expect people to improve anything when they dont think for themselves just pray to big G for everything or just say its all right its gods will...like so

Yes, Texas is highly religious (Christian), and I was raised southern Baptist (can be extremely fundamentalist). I don't know for sure how to change people's thinking, thus this thread. I'm looking for you and others who care, to help me.

find a REASON for your depression,and you'll find a cure!

The main reason for my depression, I think, is disillusionment with the brainwashed society that I live in. Brainwashed by religion, capitalism, the American dream, and other similar ways of thinking.

could be the drugs you take?

I haven't used them in about 5-6 years, minus a couple of 1 or 2-day relapses, so no, I don't think this is it any more. Could be left-over ways of thinking that I picked up while I was doing them though. It's very hard to change the way you think.

could be the poverty youre in?

No, I don't think so. I've had money, and I think I was even more depressed then. I was making all this money, and yet I was working so hard to make it that I had no time to enjoy it. Even when I quit, and lived for a year or so off my savings, I still didn't really enjoy it. Of course, it is no fun to not have any either, but I think I am happier now than I was then, though not by much. I'm getting there though.

wouldnt moving someplace where theres more work do the trick?sure did for me!

Work has never really done much, if anything, for me. Maybe it was the types of jobs I had (about 12 from '93-'98), but I don't think so really (there was a wide variety of them). I think it was more the way I learned to think about the jobs. Sure, they payed me, but I could never get over the idea that I was being used. Seems like employers just want to get everything they can out of you, pay you as little as possiible, support you in your work as little as possible, and then when they have taken everything they can from you, would rather replace you than ever see you again. That's how I feel, like a dried-up husk of a human who has been used and then discarded by corporate and government America.

you are what you eat!
first they make you sick with all the junky foods,(count the number of chemical additives in anything you buy sometime) and steroids grow hormone filled meat,and such..then they sell you very expensive medicare,and people fall for it hook line sinker. and anyone suggesting improving the system is called pinko commie anti american socialist..etc comparing you to the cowardly Frenchies who even though they pay high taxes, work only 35 hrs a week,can retire at 50 with full pension and everyone is covered by the medicare ...hmmm what to choose..American freedom to bear arms pursuit of happiness basicaly where anything goes,or some kind of social system where everyone is entitled to a decent standard of life..desicions decisions..
youre screwed

I do eat shitty food, that is for sure, though I know I shouldn't. I hate fruits and vegetables, for the most part. I do feel like there are so many enemies out there, and we can't even see them for the most part. They are like spiders, lurking in the shadows, waiting to pounce once you step one foot onto their webs. As to whether or not it is an organized conspiracy, I'm not sure. I wouldn't doubt it, but it would be almost impossible for anyone other than a James Bond type to reveal. And all of them are probably on the payroll, if it is a conspiracy. :bugeye:

 

[ellion]

cotton,
something i notice about your struggle is that it seems to be very much related to social conditions. not just conditions but conditioning. almost an artificail social climate which has been engineered for a certain aggenda. its the fact that you see through this atificial (superficial maybe) social atmosphere that is the cause of your frustration. you can see what needs to change but you cant fucking change it and thats so fucking infuriating. am i right?

 

[TheMidnight12AM]

Pressure? It's an Internet forum. There's hardly any pressure from that.

Like I said, I believe our common ground will evolve from a newer religion rather than a unification of old religions. The "unification" will come as more and more people flock to the umbrella of the new religion and drop the old ones.

 

[Cottontop3000]

cotton,
something i notice about your struggle is that it seems to be very much related to social conditions. not just conditions but conditioning. almost an artificail social climate which has been engineered for a certain aggenda. its the fact that you see through this atificial (superficial maybe) social atmosphere that is the cause of your frustration. you can see what needs to change but you cant fucking change it and thats so fucking infuriating. am i right?

Yes!!! In a way. I sense that our social atmosphere is artificial, but I can't really see through it to what is really behind it. There may be several different problems. I see some of them, I think, like what capitalism is turning the world into. And what religion has really accomplished over thousands of years. It's almost as if we, as a race, took a few wrong turns at certain points in history, dedicated ourselves to them wholly, and now we are so dependent on what we came up with (capitalism and religion, to name two) that we can't see the forest for the trees in the sense that we are headed down the wrong path and are not even "thinking" of going back to try to find a different path. In fact, it's taboo to admit that we might be wrong.

I don't know really. I just don't think we are getting anywhere really as a race. Sure, there are advances in science and technology and medicine, but to me, the way we think as a race in general is holding us back from even bigger and better things. Western culture seems to encourage mindless hard work, and once you get headed down a certain path in your life (for instance, me, as an Army officer) you stop thinking about the big picture and just do your part as part of a bigger mindless machine with the sole objective of making money, going to church, and conditioning more children who think just like we do.

I mean, do we really even think about whether we should bring children into this world? I know this one is probably gonna get a lot of people angry, and maybe just some of us (like me) shouldn't bring children into this world. Honestly, I don't want to put my future children through what I have gone through. I think it would be better not to subject them to the suffering that goes on in this world.

However, if some changes are made, I might reconsider. I know, though, that humans in general tend to have all kinds of inherent problems. So, I wonder if what I envision is even possible. A world where we hold other things more important than money and God. What exactly those things are I haven't really decided yet.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Pressure? It's an Internet forum. There's hardly any pressure from that.

Like I said, I believe our common ground will evolve from a newer religion rather than a unification of old religions. The "unification" will come as more and more people flock to the umbrella of the new religion and drop the old ones.

Personally, I'd like to see us be brave enough to leave religion behind altogether. To accept that there may be a God or Gods, but that we want know until we die, if then, and to think of better things to spend our time and effort on now. Like feeding the whole world, ending racism and poverty, coming together as a race in a larger universe, encouraging free thought, and heading for the stars. That last one is a personal favorite of mine.

To me, I think religion can be good for certain people, and has done things for us as a race, but the time has come to realize that it has served it's purpose and we need to find something more productive and unifying to replace it. I just don't like the idea of humans putting their faith in and becoming dependent on a God that may or may not be there, and expecting that He may or may not do things for us.

 

[ellion]

Yes!!! In a way. I sense that our social atmosphere is artificial, but I can't really see through it to what is really behind it. There may be several different problems. I see some of them, I think, like what capitalism is turning the world into. And what religion has really accomplished over thousands of years. It's almost as if we, as a race, took a few wrong turns at certain points in history, dedicated ourselves to them wholly, and now we are so dependent on what we came up with (capitalism and religion, to name two) that we can't see the forest for the trees in the sense that we are headed down the wrong path and are not even "thinking" of going back to try to find a different path. In fact, it's taboo to admit that we might be wrong.

i see this too and i used to have very similar views as you. but now i see that these social structures have evolved with civilization, whether honourable or corrupt they reflect the nature of humanity. the fact they are not the ideal for people such as yourself will hopefully inspire you and those like you to work toward the ideals that you hold. we are in a position now where social conditions have nurtured religions that are devoid of spirituality and political movements that have no sense of community or social coherence. within this atmosphere people who feel the inhumanity and injustice present in the system like we do
will wake up and take action. it is the frustration and the anger that fuels the fires of revolt. we are a good way from revolution yet as most of society is still sound asleep in their conditioned behaviour. like yourself i like to wake people up i do this in a different arena to you and so my game is completely different. k.

I don't know really. I just don't think we are getting anywhere really as a race. Sure, there are advances in science and technology and medicine, but to me, the way we think as a race in general is holding us back from even bigger and better things. Western culture seems to encourage mindless hard work, and once you get headed down a certain path in your life (for instance, me, as an Army officer) you stop thinking about the big picture and just do your part as part of a bigger mindless machine with the sole objective of making money, going to church, and conditioning more children who think just like we do.

so know that you are awake and you are stepping out of the machine you are feeling the responsibiilty to stop this machine. to learn new ways and to teach and guide our children toward healthier lives and relationships in a world which they hold precious for its sustainance amd see no need to hurt or take frrom each other.

I mean, do we really even think about whether we should bring children into this world? I know this one is probably gonna get a lot of people angry, and maybe just some of us (like me) shouldn't bring children into this world. Honestly, I don't want to put my future children through what I have gone through. I think it would be better not to subject them to the suffering that goes on in this world.

again i used to have a similar perspective as this but read my last paragraph and tell me that ideal is not worth aiming for and if that ideal is succesful what potential the future may hold for the race.

However, if some changes are made, I might reconsider. I know, though, that humans in general tend to have all kinds of inherent problems. So, I wonder if what I envision is even possible. A world where we hold other things more important than money and God.

i am not religious in the sense that is used on this thread but there is nothing that is more important than god to me. he is that guide to me that i am to his children.

What exactly those things are I haven't really decided yet.

ourselves, each other the world that we live and anything that unites us as one people .

 

[Cottontop3000]

i see this too and i used to have very similar views as you. but now i see that these social structures have evolved with civilization, whether honourable or corrupt they reflect the nature of humanity.

Yes, this is what I want to change really, the nature of humanity. May be downright impossible though.

the fact they are not the ideal for people such as yourself will hopefully inspire you and those like you to work toward the ideals that you hold.

Hopefully

it is the frustration and the anger that fuels the fires of revolt. we are a good way from revolution yet as most of society is still sound asleep in their conditioned behaviour. like yourself i like to wake people up i do this in a different arena to you and so my game is completely different. k.

k. I agree that revolution is a long way off. people in America anyway are too fat and too happy. What is your arena? If you don't mind letting us know?

so know that you are awake and you are stepping out of the machine you are feeling the responsibiilty to stop this machine. to learn new ways and to teach and guide our children toward healthier lives and relationships in a world which they hold precious for its sustainance amd see no need to hurt or take frrom each other.

Yeah, that is a good way to look at it.

i am not religious in the sense that is used on this thread but there is nothing that is more important than god to me. he is that guide to me that i am to his children.

I respect that, even though I may not agree with it right now.

ourselves, each other the world that we live and anything that unites us as one people .

Good ones. I'll try to keep thinking of more. It's hard to make myself think. Sometimes I wonder if humans deserve to have dominion over this planet though. Seems like we are doing more harm than good for the most part.

 

[ellion]

Yes, this is what I want to change really, the nature of humanity. May be downright impossible though.

change is change however small.

people in America anyway are too fat and too happy.

this is the problem isnt it. these are the sleeping sheep. they dont see outside the machine.

Sometimes I wonder if humans deserve to have dominion over this planet though. Seems like we are doing more harm than good for the most part.

a lot of harm is being done. humans dont deserve dominion over anything.
but there is no need to have dominion over anything, not each other or the world. maybe if we realised how much security we do have on this planet and in our society, the fear and the exagerateed desires, the selfishness, segregation and divisions would end. maybe then we could share what we do have and work united for the species. maybe then we would deserve to understand nature and work with it for the benefit of the planet, utilizing all its resources responsibly.