Cloning

LISTEN, nobody can make a claim of "fact" unless such claim is evident and proven. Noone has the right to say ""Its impossible to fly" the church or the bible has not made that claim.
Click to expand...

So, how can you say its a fact that science cannot create life? Whats your proof of that, then (remember YOU said proof was needed)?

In the 19th century it was a FACT that science could not create a (heavier than air) flying machine. The aerodynamical knowledge did not exist, the engine technology did not exist.

In the 20th century, it was a FACT that science could not create a living cell, the knowledge and technology did not exist.

Im not in particular hoping that science will become able to create life in this century; some of the perspectives are rather frightening, but what I'm saying, that the statement of the fact that science cannot CURRENTLY create life does not prove anything.

Mmmm actually, we are way off topic. --- Oh, well --

Hans
 
Originally posted by MRC_Hans
So, how can you say its a fact that science cannot create life? Whats your proof of that, then (remember YOU said proof was needed)?

In the 19th century it was a FACT that science could not create a (heavier than air) flying machine. The aerodynamical knowledge did not exist, the engine technology did not exist.

[/i].

Mmmm actually, we are way off topic. --- Oh, well --

Hans
Click to expand...

Listen again, for the 2nd time, u r using a cave man analogy. And u r right, u indeed r out of topic, atheist r good at that to prove their opinions, but u know what I only listen to facts, not psychic prediction or opinions with no evidence.

What r u talking about Frencheneez? Oh I mean Han? Science said it was a fact they cannot create a flying machine heavier than air? R ppl that atheist back then? (in other words that stupid?) Birds are not lighter than air, cant they see that? And listen, the fact here is..as soon as the study of planes began, in a period of about 15 yrs they were able to fly, atleast a glider. So its not impossible, demonstration made it a fact, they just havent improved.

Think about it, before making a claim of "chance". one must p[resent proof of its possibility, otherwise anyone can make a claim of chance, then i can say "Han, I predict that i will bcome 1 trillion miles tall few years from now, just because Im no where close in present day, it doesnt prove anything" thats what u r basically saying, whats the proof that its impossible? well my diet, and demonstration. we r far far from creating a life form, in fact evidence shows its IMPOSSIBLE, and u want the evidence?


Heres the evidence,

-Facts...

1.) Amino acids were gathered. In fact we can provide all the necessary aminos which makes up a living cell.

2.) An electron microscope can magnify a cell by 1 million times. An ant magnified 200,000 times would be more than 21/2 miles (4 kilometers) long. But even with such tremendous magnification, the detailed structure of some cell parts still cannot be seen. (So how then can we tell what r the other parts that makes up the body of cell if we cant detect it?)

3.) We can't detect anything beyond 299,792,458 m/s. And Life is a type of energy too that cannot be detected because it is beyond the limit established by light.

4.) a living cell like u and me are expirable, u cant just take out the nucleus or ribosome, because the fact is it will die.

5.) Many scientist, many years in the lab, science have been around for over 100 years. NOT ONE scientist can create a living cell.

6.) We cannot find cure for many cancers. How else can we bring a dead corpse to life?

AGAIN THIS TOPIC IS OVER, THE FACT HERE IS SCIENTIFICALLY SPEAKING, IT IS A FACT THAT ITS NOT POSSIBLE TO CREATE A LIVING CELL, NOT POSSIBLE, IMPOSSIBLE, AND I HAVE TONS OF EVIDENCE TO PROVE IT. U HOWEVER CLAIMING THAT ITS POSSIBLE TO CREATE ANY LIFE FORM HAVE NO PROOF AT ALL WHATSOEVER, NOT ONE, BUT YOUR PROOF IS PSYCHIC PREDICTION WHICH I DONT CARE, U MIGHT B A GOOD PSYCHIC, BUT I ONLY LISTEN TO SCIENTIFIC FACTS, AND NOTHING LESS. PERIOD...
 
Originally posted by muscleman
AGAIN THIS TOPIC IS OVER, THE FACT HERE IS SCIENTIFICALLY SPEAKING, IT IS A FACT THAT ITS NOT POSSIBLE TO CREATE A LIVING CELL
Click to expand...
The topic was on cloning
Originally posted by muscleman
BUT I ONLY LISTEN TO SCIENTIFIC FACTS, AND NOTHING LESS. PERIOD...
Click to expand...

wth is science about a man who twitches his fingers and created us?
 
Originally posted by Bachus
The topic was on cloning


wth is science about a man who twitches his fingers and created us?
Click to expand...

thats your last resort when facts are pointed straight at u, then u resort to ignorance. By calling the proven Higher intelligence "Giant purple squid monkey" or "Toothfairy with a magic wand" or the most popular one for the kids is "A giant white man with long beard sitting on a cloud and strikes a lightning at those who disobey Him by twitching his fingers", :D LOl LOL LOL, yup, kids with crazy imagination. God is Spirit, ok?

Anyways, about cloning, once again. Thats why the church is so strong against abortion from 1st trimester to 3rd trimester. Life begins at conception, all though they only appear to look like a cell, its still a human being with a soul as God's promise, and as the church teaches, thats why cloning is wrong, despite the tiny size, its still sacred, its still a human being, a reflection of God.
 
Originally posted by muscleman
U HOWEVER CLAIMING THAT ITS POSSIBLE TO CREATE ANY LIFE FORM HAVE NO PROOF AT ALL WHATSOEVER, NOT ONE, BUT YOUR PROOF IS PSYCHIC PREDICTION WHICH I DONT CARE, U MIGHT B A GOOD PSYCHIC, BUT I ONLY LISTEN TO SCIENTIFIC FACTS, AND NOTHING LESS. PERIOD...
Click to expand...

No, not quite, muscleman. Are you deliberately being obtuse, or do you actually not understand the question?

What's being said is that, yes, currently scientists lack the knowledge to create life from scratch. HOWEVER, we are still learning - the human race has yet to give up on that particular obsession. Are YOU claiming to be psychic, to see all the way to the end of mankind and verify that we will never, EVER be able to do this? (And if you are that psychic, would you mind peeking at the next few sets of lottery numbers for me? Thanks)

If you ONLY listen to scientific facts...why do you read the bible? Are you under the impression that the bible is a scientific journal of some kind? I hate to break it to you, but even if one assumes the bible is 100% the truth, it directly contradicts science unless you use the "it's metaphorical" loophole, which would clearly indicate it is NOT a scientific document. (Such as the world being flat, etc)

Or do you ONLY listen to scientific facts that you can squeeze in next to the bible without having to deal with any pesky contradictions?
 
Originally posted by muscleman
before making a claim of "chance"... one must present proof of its possibility

There have been all sorts of interesting experiments that demonstrate how life might have originated. Have any of them resulted in life being created? No. But that is not proof that it is not possible.

in fact evidence shows its IMPOSSIBLE, and u want the evidence?

Really. What evidence indicates that it's impossible? Nothing you listed indicates such a conclusion.

1. Irrelevant.
2. Irrelevant and misleading.
3. Care to provide proof that "life is a type of energy too that cannot be detected"? If it cannot be detected where is your proof?
4. You're dead wrong here. We can. Geneticists have done all kinds of neat things taking DNA out of cells and putting it into other cells. Causing cells to initiate reproducing again. Perhaps you've read about some of these experiments... like cloning. Problem is you have no idea what you're talking about.
5. Irrelevant.
6. Irrelevant and begging the question.

Sorry musclehead, your word is a lie.

~Raithere
 
This is all very funny everyone knows I created all. without repeating whats already been ill say this, muscleman is a troll. well now I suppose muscleman is going to say thats what we do when we
know were wrong but like i said troll!!!
 
Muscleman,

I only listen to facts, not psychic prediction or opinions with no evidence.
Click to expand...
There are no facts or evidence that support the claim that a god exists. If you disagree then quote such a fact. Note that all religious leaders emphasize faith as a basis for their belief because facts are absent. If any facts existed then faith would be irrelevant. Religious faith is belief without evidence or facts - the basis of all religions.

If you truly only depend on facts and evidence then it is impossible for you to be religious or a theist.

Souls: You blatantly assert that souls exist in all living things. Quote a fact and evidence that supports this.

Cris
 
Originally posted by Cupric


What's being said is that, yes, currently scientists lack the knowledge to create life from scratch. HOWEVER, we are still learning - the human race has yet to give up on that particular obsession. Are YOU claiming to be psychic, to see all the way to the end of mankind and verify that we will never, EVER be able to do this? (And if you are that psychic, would you mind peeking at the next few sets of lottery numbers for me? Thanks)

HAHAHAHA, U R TWISTING YOUR CLAIM THAT BELONGS TO U AND FALSELY ACCUSE ME OF CLAIMING THE FUTURE PREDICTION. HAHAHAHA, LISTEN STUPID (YES U HEARD ME I CALLED U "STUPID"). THE PRESENT FACT IS...THE PRESENT FACT IS...THE FACT IS...THE FACT IS A CELL IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE CREATED, THATS A SCIENTIFIC FACT. NOW YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CLAIM IN THE FUTURE IT WILL B POSSIBLE, SO THEN GOOD LUCK WITH YUR PREDICITION WHICH I DONT CARE, FACT IS...FACT IS ITS NOT POSSIBLE TODAY, THE EVIDENCE STATES ITS IMPOSSIBLE NOW EVEN WITH THIS ADVANCE TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE...THATS A FACT, SO SHUR YOUR HOLE AND DONT ACCUSE ME OF BEING A PSYCHIC LIKE U ACCUSER.LOL...SATAN HAS MANY NAMES, AND ONE OF THEM IS "THE ACCUSER"...HMMM I SEE THE RELATION THERE...:)

AGAIN, JUST TO REMIND YOUR LYING ALIGATOR BRAIN, FACT IS ITS IMPOSSIBLE NOW, AND THERE R SERIES OF EVIDENCE THAT ITS IMPOSSIBLE NOW, AND OBSERVATION, STUDY, EXPERIMENTATION MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE NOW, THEREFORE ITS IMPOSSIBLE NOW, GOT IT? U MAKE A CLAIM ITS POSSIBLE IN THE FUTURE, WELL GOODLUCK :)



I hate to break it to you, but even if one assumes the bible is 100% the truth, it directly contradicts science unless you use the "it's metaphorical" loophole, which would clearly indicate it is NOT a scientific document. (Such as the world being flat, etc)

YES THE BIBLE IS 100% MORAL TRUTH, NOT 100% SCIENTIFIC TRUTH, OR 100%GEOGRAPHIC TRUTH, BUT MORAL TRUTH, WANT TO CHALLENGE ME IN BIBLE DEBATES? :)

[/B]
Click to expand...

note: THERE R ONLY 2 POSSIBLE OPTIONS CONCERNING THE CAUSES OF THE UNIVERSE, EITHER ITS "INTELLIGENCE" (FROM CHRISTIANITY) OR "CHANCE" (FROM ATHEIST)....INTELLIGENCE IS PROVEN....INTELLIGENCE IS PROVEN...INTELLIGENCE IS PROVEN....CHANCE ISNT...CHANCE ISNT...CHANCE ISNT...WE CAN START THE DEBATE ALL OVER AGAIN AND I WOULD LOVE TO HUMILIATE U CHILDREN AGAIN...:)
 
Raising the dead

Just thought I'd pass this article along. Seems that science can raise the dead. So much for the whole "breath of life", "undectable energy", "only God can create life" argument.

~Raithere

Raising the dead

Calf cloned using cells from a side of beef

A COW has been cloned using cells taken from a side of beef, 48 hours after slaughter. This might mean ranchers could select their breeding stock after they 've seen the quality of meat it will produce -though the clones themselves would not be eaten.

The calf was born on 22 April, say scientists at the University of Georgia and agricultural biotechnology company ProLinia, based in Athens, Georgia. The team was headed by Steven Stice, a Georgia University researcher who was among the first to produce cloned cows.

The calf was cloned from a kidney cell taken from a side of beef in a local slaughterhouse. This isn 't the first time that cells from a dead animal have been used in cloning -last year, scientists used genes from two dead ewes to recreate a rare mouflon sheep. But ProLinia president Mike Wanner says the company didn 't change anything about the way the beef was slaughtered or processed, to prove that the technique could work commercially.

Cattle breeders already try to select cows for desirable traits such as the ability to put on weight quickly. They also try, not always successfully, to breed in the ability to produce good meat. "They have an idea of the quality of the meat before slaughter. But they 're frequently wrong," Wanner says.

Randy Huffman, vice-president of scientific affairs with the American Meat Institute Foundation in Washington DC, agrees. Some traits that are important to the packing industry, like tenderness, are difficult to detect in the live animal, he says.

The team used kidney cells since they are usually left with the side of beef after slaughter and throughout the process of grading, judging how good the meat is. The researchers put the material from the kidney cell into an egg cell and implanted it in a cow. Apart from the source of the cells, the cloning technique was the same as ProLinea already uses.

ProLinea is one of several companies that are cloning farm animals. Others include Edinburgh-based PPL Therapeutics, the company that cloned Dolly the sheep, Infigen in Wisconsin, and Advanced Cell Technology in Massachusetts, a company Stice used to work for.

But Joseph Mendelson, legal director for the Center for Food Safety, a Washington pressure group, says not enough is known about cloning to put the meat on the market yet. "We don 't really know what 's going on in these animals," he says. Many cloned embryos die in the womb. Some animals that are born have physical abnormalities, such as a propensity to obesity, or respiratory difficulties.

Wanner says the clones would not themselves be used for meat. They would be used to breed other animals with desirable traits. Some animal breeders are already cloning especially valuable breeding animals.

The US Food and Drug Administration has asked companies to delay selling meat or milk derived from cloned animals, probably until after the National Academy of Sciences finishes a report on cloning safety that is expected in a few months.

Kurt Kleiner

From New Scientist 04 May 2002.
Click to expand...
 
my guess

If a human eats an animal cloned from dead cells , he turns into a zombie:eek:
 
"A COW has been cloned using cells taken from a side of beef, 48 hours after slaughter. "

You guys r so so so so super stupid..For reals, CLONING IS USING A LIVING EXISTING CELL...I REPEAT, CLONING IS USING A LIVING EXISTING CELL, ONE MORE TIME (SINCE I KNOW U GUYS R CONEHEADS) CLONING IS USING A LIVING EXISTING CELL, GOT IT?

U CANNOT CLONE OFF DEAD CELLS LYING CHILDREN.

RAITH, GIVE IT UP, DONT LIE TOO MUCH MAN, PEOPLE SEE THAT (UNLESS U R ATHEIST). OK?:bugeye: U GUYS R WEIRD MAN, WEIRD INDEED...LYING LYING LYING....:eek: SAME THING OVER AND OVER...


ATHEIST- (A';-THEIS;'M.) N. TO BE AS STUPID AS POSSIBLE. N.ONE WHO LIES ALL THE TIME TO PROVE THEIR OPINION..AKA, SUPER LIAR. ATHEISM, DENYING TRUTH (GOD), TO BE DOOMED FOR ETERNITY: STUBBORN, HARD HEADED.
 
Originally posted by muscleman
"A COW has been cloned using cells taken from a side of beef, 48 hours after slaughter."

You guys r so so so so super stupid..For reals, CLONING IS USING A LIVING EXISTING CELL...I REPEAT, CLONING IS USING A LIVING EXISTING CELL, ONE MORE TIME (SINCE I KNOW U GUYS R CONEHEADS) CLONING IS USING A LIVING EXISTING CELL, GOT IT?

U CANNOT CLONE OFF DEAD CELLS LYING CHILDREN.

Yes, you caught me musclehead. I made up the story for the sole purpose of refuting you. I then called several scientists that I know and had then tell the lie to the reporters for New Scientist Magazine as well as several other publications. I did this all in April, before you showed up here, knowing that I would need this information in advance.

Just in case you don't understand sarcasm, musclehead, I'll translate the above into moronese for you:

CLONES CAN B MAD FROM DED CELS! UR RONG STOOPID! UR RONG STOOPID! UR RONG STOOPID! UR RONG STOOPID!

~Raithere
 
Muscleman, muscleman, muscleman...

"HAHAHAHA, U R TWISTING YOUR CLAIM THAT BELONGS TO U AND FALSELY ACCUSE ME OF CLAIMING THE FUTURE PREDICTION."

I claim to be psychic? Really? That's funny, I don't remember doing that anywhere. I think you're a little bit confused. Or, to put it into your vernacular; you are falsely accusing me.

"LISTEN STUPID (YES U HEARD ME I CALLED U "STUPID"). "

You're an asshole. Yes you heard me, I called you "an asshole". I'm sorry muscleman, but if I'm stupid, you are a world-class moron, and I mean that sincerely. I can mail you a certificate, suitable for framing, proclaiming that, if you like.

"PRESENT FACT IS...THE PRESENT FACT IS...THE FACT IS...THE FACT IS "

Oh, I'm sorry...I didn't realize you ACTUALLY are missing part of your brain. My apologies...I thought you were a moron in the colloquial sense, not in a literal sense.

"A CELL IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE CREATED, THATS A SCIENTIFIC FACT. NOW YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CLAIM IN THE FUTURE IT WILL B POSSIBLE, SO THEN GOOD LUCK WITH YUR PREDICITION WHICH I DONT CARE, FACT IS...FACT IS ITS NOT POSSIBLE TODAY, THE EVIDENCE STATES ITS IMPOSSIBLE NOW EVEN WITH THIS ADVANCE TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE...THATS A FACT, "

Right. That's what I said. It's not CURRENTLY possible. (Currently means "today", as you're using the word) And where again did I predict anything? Prove it, moron. (That's right, you heard me, I called you a "moron".)

For someone who says he "only listen to facts" you sure do have a hard time paying attention to the facts of this little thread from post to post. Really, it's okay to read it carefully, none of the icky "rational thinking" cooties will get on you through the computer. If you possibly can, kindly pointed out where I have EVER predicted anything remotely to do with cloning, or predicted anything at all, anywhere within this thread. Just one example is plenty.

"SO SHUR YOUR HOLE AND DONT ACCUSE ME OF BEING A PSYCHIC LIKE U ACCUSER.LOL...SATAN HAS MANY NAMES, AND ONE OF THEM IS "THE ACCUSER"...HMMM I SEE THE RELATION THERE..."

Well, I'm not quite sure how to "shur" my hole, but whatever it is, I'm sure your hole could use some "shurring". This is supposed to be a joke, I think, since you are the only one accusing anybody of being psychic. Unless you're trying to proclaim yourself to be Satan? That's an interesting angle to take, I hope it gets you somewhere.

"AGAIN, JUST TO REMIND YOUR LYING ALIGATOR BRAIN"

Lying aligator brain? Hmmm...now I must ask you to point out anything I've said that can be proven to be a lie. Are you sure you have enough time for all of this? Maybe you should pause before pointing fingers and making assertations to check that they're accurate. It would really save you a lot of time. And what were you just saying about being an accuser?

", FACT IS ITS IMPOSSIBLE NOW, AND THERE R SERIES OF EVIDENCE THAT ITS IMPOSSIBLE NOW, AND OBSERVATION, STUDY, EXPERIMENTATION MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE NOW, THEREFORE ITS IMPOSSIBLE NOW, GOT IT? "

Yes you moron, I do get it. (That's right, you heard me, I called you a "moron") That's what I said in my post, which you obviously have trouble comprehending. Here, let me quote myself: "What's being said is that, yes, currently scientists lack the knowledge to create life from scratch"

Got it? Did I use words that were too long? You do understand what "currently" means, right? You know, dictionary.com can help you with these big words.

"U MAKE A CLAIM ITS POSSIBLE IN THE FUTURE, WELL GOODLUCK"

Hmm, no that's not what I said. I asked you if YOU could see into the future to see that it's impossible. The only positive statements I made were the one I quoted above, where I "claim" that currently we do not have the scientific ability to create life. The other positive "claim" I made was that human beings are still learning.

Help me out here, muscleman...I'm trying to figure out if you really, actually, literally are a moron, or if you're just acting like one. I won't pick on you any more if you really do have a diminished brain capacity. Just let me know. Really.

"YES THE BIBLE IS 100% MORAL TRUTH, NOT 100% SCIENTIFIC TRUTH, OR 100%GEOGRAPHIC TRUTH, BUT MORAL TRUTH, "

Thanks for the clarification on that one. So if you only listen to scientific facts, what the heck are you doing reading the bible? Or did you misstate yourself previously? (I won't call you an out-and-out liar, just yet. I wait for proof before I accuse people, maybe you can learn from my example? What would Jesus do?)

"WANT TO CHALLENGE ME IN BIBLE DEBATES? "

Hmmm...on the one hand, I'm sorely tempted to discuss Genesis with you. However that hand closes because I realize you don't actually want to debate, you'd rather make assumptions, avoid questions and dole out unwarrented insults using poor grammar and even worse punctuation.

And then there's the other hand, where I realize that I don't debate the capabilities of the Enterprise with Trekkies, so why should I indulge you in discussing your favorite fiction if I don't indulge them? They, at least, can answer questions without resorting to the aforementioned insults, and most can also string together a sentence fairly well too.

No, muscleman, I'm afraid you're just a little bit too annoying. Otherwise, yes, I would sort of enjoy finding out what kind of ridiculous ideas you have rattling around in that poor skull of yours.
 
"This isn 't the first time that cells from a dead animal have been used in cloning -last year, scientists used genes from two dead ewes to recreate a rare mouflon sheep. "

YOU LIAR...YOU LIAR...YOU LIAR...YOU LIAR...YOU LIAR..

YOU CAN CLONE OFF DEAD ANIMALS WITH "LIVING CELLS" U SACK OF SHEEP, THE LETTER WAS RIGHT, ITS UR LYING ALIGATOR BRAIN THAT DIDNT UNDERSTAND IT...U CANNOT CLONE OFF DEAD CELL STUPID, OTHERWISE HOW CAN A DEAD CELL DEVELOP? DO U HAVE AN ALIGATOR BRAIN OR A MUSTARD ONE?

YOU ARE WEIRD LYING SUPER LIAR, IN FACT U MAY BE POSSESED BY A DEMON. LOL SUPER LIAR...

AGAIN, YOU CAN CLONE OFF DEAD ANIMALS, AND JUST BECUZ THE ANIMALS IS SLAUGHTERED, IT DOESNT MEAN ALL THE CELLS IN ITS BODY ALREADY DECAYED AND DIED, THERE R LIVING CELLS STILL.

AND U CAN ONLY CLONE OFF LIVING CELLS, NOT DEAD CELLS..O MY GOD :D HOW OLD R U? I MEAN HOW STUPID ARE YOU?
 
I rest my case, I apologyze atheist people for calling you "stupid" and a "liar" even though they r true, I feel guilty calling u guys that. So apologize Im a sinner (Once again dont say God is a myth because I have sinned ;) )

note: I have gotten my point across, and again i apologize for calling u names, I just cant believe it u know, i havent encountered ppl like u guys before. But now I have, this is an experience.

Once again, I won the debate because my evidence is CURRENT, not prediction of the future like the atheist with this analogy "well they were sure fire didnt exist until later on they were proven wrong, therefore its impossible now to create a living life form and bring a dead corpse to life, but who r u to say thats no possible in the future?", :D so good luck with bringing a dead person to life prediction, meanwhile I WILL B LIVING IN A REAL WORLD, the current one,

and so I rest my case...Period.
 
Hey muscleman!

I think your caps lock key is stuck. That's why you're typing in those "big letters" all of a sudden.

If you look at your keyboard (it's that thing with the buttons on it that you push to make words appear on the screen)...the caps lock key is usually right above the key labeled "shift", found on the left hand side of the keyboard.

Did I go too fast? I'll give you a hint, if you hold up your hands, palm out, and hold your thumb and index finger out as far away from eachother as you can, your left side is the one that makes an "L" shape. If you just remember that "left" starts with an "L", you can figure it out every time! C'mon...I KNOW you can do it, muscleman! I'm rooting for you!

Oh, and "you" is actually a word consisting of three letters...there's a "y" and an "o" in addition to the "u".

And "are" is a similarly-constructed word. There's an "a" and "e" in addition to the "r".

Here, let me show you: YOU ARE

See those extra letters? Isn't that neat? Try it yourself, you'll see just how easy it is to use the language properly!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top