Cloning and the nature of the self

G

GodlessEvil

God is dead
Registered Senior Member
If i was to get myself cloned and am a definate 100% clone, what would gods position be on such a thing?

Would my clone have a soul, and if not would it be a zombie?

Way i see it a clone may prove the existence of the soul and god if a clone was made and was a sort of mindless zombie.

Although being an atheist i would expect the clone to be exactly like me except would develop a different personality due to enviromental factors, much like if i had a twin, a twin is not that different to a clone, if you seperated them from birth and sent them 2000 miles apart and brought back together after 30 years they would be similar due to genetic traits but may have a different personalality due to enviromental ones such as different schools, parents, jobs etc.

However main difference with cloning is the age gap, i am 25 now, if i have a clone now i will be 50 years old when he is 25 yrs, it would be like meeting myself in the past.

This is not a thread for discussing rights and wrongs, as far as that goes i do not think it is wrong because it is not much different to twins and we adore twins and hate clones.

But what do theists think, would god let it happen, would they be zombies?
would it be doomed to fail?
 
Cones are genetic copies - similar to twins, they share the same DNA. I see no difference.

PS: The B cell DNA will of course be different :)
 
Michael said:
PS: The B cell DNA will of course be different :)
Click to expand...

OH of course, it is as plain as flour!

I'll have to look that one up as i've not a clue what you're on about.
 
Clones are simply identical twins of the original. Twins don't share the same soul. Neither do you ever get a Zombie. ;)

From what i have seen clones might have a shortened life span.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
i used to have a sort of mystical view on clones. i don't anymore. it doesn't make sense anymore. they are as far as i'm concerned more or less identical to twins. (ha, ha)

the only danger as far as i can see it is found in the idea of Brave New World-style breeding and conditioning. the dystopian novels have something to say, even if they're extreme.
 
No you wouldn't be a zombie becasue a by definition of Websters Dictionary is 'the supernatural power that according to voodoo belief may enter into and reanimate a dead body' so since the theoretical clone of you hasn't already died it is there for not a zombie, so we've got that cleared up now. I am not going to say what Gods position on it would be because I am not but I think it would be you are trying to become him aka playing God...just as Lucifer did and then became what we know as the 'devil'. Now a soul is pretty much a personality,right? look at this thread http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=49085 look at this thread and it will edifie what you already said. I think it would be doomed to fail in my eyes. Science can prove alot but it can't prove the existance of God and if it can't prove there is a God I don't think it would be able to play it.
 
GodlessEvil said:
If i was to get myself cloned and am a definate 100% clone, what would gods position be on such a thing?

Would my clone have a soul, and if not would it be a zombie?

Way i see it a clone may prove the existence of the soul and god if a clone was made and was a sort of mindless zombie.
Click to expand...
We already make clones and no they aren't mindless zombies. Cloning is currently being used in an attempt to preserve endangered species.

http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/10_01/cloned_sheep.shtml
 
If you get an EXACT copy of yourself... exact as in down to the exact atomic structure you would still have two different personalities in both. Not just down to environmental factors, but doesn't very small matter that causes your mind to function work completely differently to the larger matter which makes up the body?
 
GodlessEvil said:
if you seperated them from birth and sent them 2000 miles apart and brought back together after 30 years they would be similar due to genetic traits but may have a different personalality due to enviromental ones such as different schools, parents, jobs etc.
Click to expand...

Not to mention their watches might be ever so slightly out of sync ;)

sorry couldnt resist.

Off topic.

c20
 
Clone will be 100% your flesh but without a soul - a clone in koma.
 
Michael said:
Cones are genetic copies - similar to twins, they share the same DNA. I see no difference.

PS: The B cell DNA will of course be different :)
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: Cones are those things that grow on pine trees.
 
Medicine Woman said:
*************
M*W: Cones are those things that grow on pine trees.
Click to expand...
Well, cones :m: can also be smoked :p ...... clones that is, but they're hard to roll up into human size cones ..hehe.. :D
 
GodlessEvil said:
OH of course, it is as plain as flour!

I'll have to look that one up as i've not a clue what you're on about.
Click to expand...
The immune system will be different, because even identical copies will encounter different antigens/pathogens. So the DNA that encodes for antibodies will be different - even in twins/clones.

As to the souls - they are make beleive and don't exist for either twins, clones, people, etc.... sorry but Death is truly the final curtain :)
 
KennyJC said:
If you get an EXACT copy of yourself... exact as in down to the exact atomic structure you would still have two different personalities in both. Not just down to environmental factors, but doesn't very small matter that causes your mind to function work completely differently to the larger matter which makes up the body?
Click to expand...

Your right, there's a difference in what the clone does because it will not have the same upbringing as the original. They will have similar characteristics though. Each clone made will be different in many ways but will look the same.
 
GodlessEvil said:
If i was to get myself cloned and am a definate 100% clone, what would gods position be on such a thing?

Would my clone have a soul, and if not would it be a zombie?

Way i see it a clone may prove the existence of the soul and god if a clone was made and was a sort of mindless zombie.

Although being an atheist i would expect the clone to be exactly like me except would develop a different personality due to enviromental factors, much like if i had a twin, a twin is not that different to a clone, if you seperated them from birth and sent them 2000 miles apart and brought back together after 30 years they would be similar due to genetic traits but may have a different personalality due to enviromental ones such as different schools, parents, jobs etc.

However main difference with cloning is the age gap, i am 25 now, if i have a clone now i will be 50 years old when he is 25 yrs, it would be like meeting myself in the past.

This is not a thread for discussing rights and wrongs, as far as that goes i do not think it is wrong because it is not much different to twins and we adore twins and hate clones.

But what do theists think, would god let it happen, would they be zombies?
would it be doomed to fail?
Click to expand...
It is just the body that is duplicated, what is you cannot be duplicated. The way I understand it, two can become one, but one cannot become two (thus also what God has joined may no man seperate).

If it is even possible, it would probably be a bad sin.

I don't think God approves with it, but probably will allow it due to the nature of freedom that we have. The same freedom that allows us to do evil.

I've thought about this subject too, and thought that it might prove the soul to exist, since if there is no physical difference then what determines which body I should be in?

BTW, it wouldn't surprise me if we are everything we wanted to be.
 
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Since souls do not exist, a clone is an exact copy of you, without memories- unless you find a way to transmit the electical impulses of the human brain into storeable files...a clone of you will be different than you, in that it will have a differently evolved personality, because of a different upbringing.
 
CLONES, even magically created instant exact reproductions of "yourself" would, in the moment of their creation, have an entirely different experience of that moment, an entirely different "point of view" than you.. and the Infinite Intelligence that IS the universe would be having an entirely different experience BEING that clone than it is has BEING you... soooo.... I think God would just go on Godding as always, and your question would no more bother God than it bothers me....

BUT, now here's a little something to think about.. IF you learned to BE your awareness, your "point of view", and awareness IS a NON-LOCAL activity of course... could you, would you MOVE INTO YOUR brand-new fresh clone... and live YEARS and YEARS longer??!!!? And if you could do that... move into another locality at will... do you think you'd really need the clone????????

<a href="http://www.ayla-z.com">Ayla Z</a>
 
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