Nope. Those are quite accurate terms, and are distinct from most climate research. A denier is characterized by a steadfast denial of climate change generally for political reasons; an alarmist is someone who spreads fear and alarm over climate change, again generally for political reasons. They are a staple of conservative and liberal media.
It is supported by the entire body of scientific work on rates of climate change in the past, compared with the direct measurements of the rate of change now.sculptor said:
Raymo herself does not make that assumption or that claim - neither does anyone else, outside of your politically corrupt sources. Sudden jumps in sea level have several more likely causes than sudden jumps in atmospheric temperatures, the atmospheric temperature jump necessary to melt that much ice directly as it goes is far higher than we have any reason to believe happened, and with no evidence in support and much more likely mechanisms at hand we have no reason to postulate an otherwise invisible rocket change in the climate.sculptor said:
Here's that quote in context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntRhitFPw9c As you can hear and see, she means the opposite of what you are attempting to say she means. She means that the current climate is likely to change faster and more dramatically than the IPCC estimates - she's lining up with the alarmists, not the deniers.sculptor said:
Yes the ocean is storing heat, especially the deep ocean which is rising in temperature faster and has much greater volume. - However, it is not giving heat back. To do so it would need to be cooling, not getting warmer. Storage implies one can recover the the stored energy. Would you buy a battery your could only charge, not use?
Deep-water masses account for more than 90 percent of the total volume of the oceans. Although very few humans will get to see or sample these water masses, they are crucial to the way the ocean works, and key to the properties and behavior of the surface ocean, including much of the marine food chain.
The deep ocean is generally considered to include the ocean below a transition known as the thermocline. The thermocline is the sharp temperature decrease that lies at the base of the surface mixed layer where waters are generally uniform in temperature as a result of convection. Deep-water masses are produced at the surface of the ocean and transported to depth via downwelling. Generally, downwelling occurs where the surface ocean is warm, or, rarely, unusually saline. Downwelling water travels along lines of equal density known as isopycnals and spreads out horizontally at the level where it is equal in density to the surrounding water mass.
The production of deep-water masses via downwelling occurs in high-latitude regions of the northern and southern hemisphere where the surface ocean is cooled by winds. Wind moving over the water both cools it and causes an increase in evaporation. This evaporation targets just the water molecules, resulting in an increase in the salinity of the water. Falling temperature and increasing salinity render these surface water masses denser, allowing them to downwell. In certain locations, the formation of sea ice also causes an increase in salinity as the freezing removes fresh water, leaving the salt behind in a process known as brine exclusion. Pockets of salty water around the margins of the ice sink as a result of their higher density. Moreover, brine exclusion intensifies the cooling by wind.
Map showing formation of North Atlantic Deep Water in the northern part of the North Atlantic
Formation of North Atlantic Deep Water in the northern part of the North Atlantic.
Credit: Darin Toohey (Toohey@colorado.edu)
Today there are three major deep ocean masses. North Atlantic Deep Water or NADW is mainly produced where the surface ocean is cooled in the Norwegian Sea in the northern part of the North Atlantic on the north side of a ridge that runs between Greenland, Iceland and Scotland. This cooled water seeps through the ridge and downwells. Portions of NADW are also produced in the Labrador Sea and in the Mediterranean. This water mass is 1-2.5oC and 35 ppt. NADW travels down the west side of the North Atlantic Ocean at a depth of 2000-4000m and through the west side of the South Atlantic. Much of NADW upwells in the Southern Ocean, but portions join the Antarctic Circumpolar Current and travel at depth into the Indian and Pacific Oceans.
Antarctic Bottom Water or AABW is produced by evaporative cooling off the coast of Antarctica and under the Ross ice shelf. With this source, AABW is amongst the coldest water in the ocean with a temperature of -0.4oC. This water is relatively fresh (average 34.6 ppt). AABW travels northward along the western side of the South Atlantic underneath NADW. Some of the water mass spills over into the eastern part of the South Atlantic, while the remainder travels into the equatorial channel between South America and Africa.
The third major source of deep water is called Antarctic Intermediate Water or AIW. AIW is produced near the Antarctic Convergence or Polar Front where downwelling occurs as a result of convergence of surface currents. AIW has a temperature of 3-7oC and a salinity of 34.3 ppt. It travels a considerable distance northward into the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Ocean basins.
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There are numerous other deep water masses, especially at intermediate depths, for example, North Pacific Intermediate water. As deep-water masses travel through the ocean they gradually mix with surrounding water masses. For example, NADW mixes with AABW and AIW.
Downwelling supplies oxygen to the deep ocean and therefore ventilates this body of water. It does not bring nutrients. Deep water currents generally move very slowly with a velocity of several cm per second. Typically, surface currents move 10-100 times faster than this. At these rates deep water currents take thousands of years to encircle the globe. In fact, the oldest deep water in the ocean (in the North Pacific) is about 1500 years old. As deep waters circle the globe their properties change. They mix with waters around them, and their chemistry changes as they acquire nutrients such as phosphate and CO2 from decaying organic matter and lose oxygen.
The opposite process of downwelling is upwelling. Upwelling is where a deep-water mass that is lighter than waters around it rises to the level where it is no longer buoyant. This situation generally results when surface winds move the surface water masses away from a location, resulting in the upward movement of water from depth to fill the void. Upwelling is frequent in coastal regions, especially those in subtropical regions where high pressure results in a dominant offshore wind flow. In addition, the ocean divergences where winds move surface current by Ekman transport are frequented by upwelling. Upwelling is crucial to the supply of nutrients to surface water masses, fueling high levels of productivity in the surface ocean. The most prolific fisheries of the world in coastal regions occur in nutrient-rich waters such as Peru and California and are supplied by upwelling.
As we have seen, the circulation of the deep ocean is driven by density differences that arise as a result of temperature and salinity of the different water masses. This type of circulation is known as thermohaline (temperature=thermo; haline=salt or salinity). Strictly speaking, since surface ocean currents are not driven by thermohaline mechanics but by winds and to a much lesser degree, tides, the circulation of the ocean as a whole is often called the meridional overturning circulation. However, we will continue to use the term thermohaline when addressing deep-water circulation.
Completely true but note the temperature of the upwelling bottom water - Much to cold too heat the air as your false theory suggests.
The deep current, no; but the average pressure in the flow is slightly. A uniform pressure does not make any flow.
Completely true but note the temperature of the upwelling bottom water - Much to cold too heat the air as your false theory suggests.
Following is the important part of your quote:
" Today there are three major deep ocean masses. North Atlantic Deep Water or NADW is mainly produced where the surface ocean is cooled in the Norwegian Sea in the northern part of the North Atlantic on the north side of a ridge that runs between Greenland, Iceland and Scotland. This cooled water seeps through the ridge and downwells. Portions of NADW are also produced in the Labrador Sea and in the Mediterranean. This water mass is 1-2.5oC and 35 ppt. NADW travels down the west side of the North Atlantic Ocean at a depth of 2000-4000m and through the west side of the South Atlantic. Much of NADW upwells in the Southern Ocean, but portions join the Antarctic Circumpolar Current and travel at depth into the Indian and Pacific Oceans.
Antarctic Bottom Water or AABW is produced by evaporative cooling off the coast of Antarctica and under the Ross ice shelf. With this source, AABW is amongst the coldest water in the ocean with a temperature of -0.4oC. This water is relatively fresh (average 34.6 ppt). AABW travels northward along the western side of the South Atlantic underneath NADW. Some of the water mass spills over into the eastern part of the South Atlantic, while the remainder travels into the equatorial channel between South America and Africa."
I am very familiar with the ThermoHaline driven ocean circulation - have posted its global circulation pattern many times, but all you need to know is that less than 3 degree C water in contact with the air is on average over the year a sink for thermal energy, not your silly source that makes air Warmer by having stored heat from the prior solar intensity peak time fill in the missing solar heat during period (~2002 to 2012) when solar output was falling or below average. Also note that the upwelling of the Gulf Steam's bottom current only begins to start in the tropics and some not until it reaches the Indian Ocean (or even passes India and rise in the Pacific) to pull heat from the air - NOT HEAT THE AIR - that is nonsnse!
For fresh water, 4 degrees C is the densest state. For Gulf Steam salinity, it is essentially the same temperature but about 3% denser due to its salt content. The Gulf Stream flows on top of the colder ocean water as the contraction with temperature makes it able to "float" the water moving North along the US east coast that is becoming less salty than when it left the tropics. Eventually the slightly more salty water cools enough that it sinks due to its salt content being great that the melting ice water and it sink remaining quite cold until near the equator where the local water, which is more salty, sink and helps lift the still colder remains of the gulf steam water to the surface again where the sun begins to both warm it and increase the salt concentration.
I know you are too closed of mind to admit your "delayed release of stored solar heat from the last solar peak" is nonsense and does NOT explain why the air temperature increased when the solar intensity was falling or less than average. That is ignorant nonsense (so long as heat only naturally flows from hot to cold, and not the reverse) but I post for others who can learn.
Here is a simplified illustration of the main thermohaline circulation:
Note the warm north bound flow in the Atlantic is actually closer to US than to Europe, but they displace it in the drawing so north and south flows would not over lap, but show separately.
The deep current, no; but the average pressure in the flow is slightly. A uniform pressure does not make any flow.
The "deniers" tend to quote each other as "proof" so I doubt it was new with Sculptor but his statement offered a clearly false explanation as to why too - not just an assertion, so was easy to expose as non-sense.
While it is true that such feedbacks exist, they are clearly not strong enough to, alone, set the direction of climate. As proof of this, arctic ice hit a minimum in 2012 and has been increasing each year since. If the positive feedback of melting Arctic ice were strong, this could not happen, since the feedback would increase warming and increase the rate at which ice is melting.
You've said this before, and you now know it's not true. At this point it's starting to look like you are trying to deliberately mislead people, which is unfortunate. By getting a reputation as someone who intentionally misleads people, even your better points will not be taken seriously.
Anybody with even a basic grasp of statistics could have predicted that would happen.
Whenerv you have an extreme measurement, regardless of what's being measured, the next measurement is most likely to fall closer to the mean - it's called regression towards the mean
Please try to support this claim. I think it is false and why IPCC made gross errors on when Artic would be ice free. The three strong feed backs melting ice, I discussed in prior post DOMINTE the linear term the IPCC did consider.
That is false. - The AREA covered, as measured by satellites, is slightly more than the least ever measured, but as I explained in post 1253 (with photo of recently broken up and slightly separated ice chunks), but the mass of ice is already less than the 2012 minimum, and still melting. Only when the satellite low resolution show less than 50% ice cover is that area called "ice free" or open ocean. Submarine sonars are more accurate (to a few cm) but extremely local and only provide rare data points.
By definition, this feedback is not strong enough to be self-sustaining, since arctic ice coverage has been increasing for the past two years.
Right. And per your definition of this particular feedback cycle, warm water = lower ice extent = more water exposed to absorb warming. That is what is not happening. You can claim that there's more ice extent but less ice, but if that's a result of warmer water, that is a NEGATIVE feedback mechanism, and obviates your claim.