Climate-gate

Grumpy said:
Photizo

Do you know what is under the sands of the Sahara desert? River beds, forests, savannahs, grass plains like the midwest and signs of civilization. Do you know why it's now a desert instead of all those things? Climate change. Denying that climate changes happen is rather, er...thoughtless. And denying science in general when you have no grasp of it is, er...not conducive to your long term survival. You are fated to future disappointment and chagrin, don't you ever get tired of being wrong about everything all of the time?

Grumpy:cool:
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I don't think any thoughtful person believes climate never changes, nor do/would they 'deny science'. Some of you people are so condescending it's pathetic. What you've pointed out is common knowledge and should serve as an example for you not me. There's nothing you can do to stop these things from happening. Laying a guilt trip on mankind and declaring people to be the cause of something that's obviously been an ongoing process is wrong. People are being exploited on a mass scale... they appeal to their better side to get them to join a crusade that will lead them into poverty and substandard living conditions. The fact that they get them to do it willingly and happily is devilish in the extreme. In my mind, you're destined to become the Eloi.
Whatever.
 
Photizo

I don't think any thoughtful person believes climate never changes, nor do/would they 'deny science'. Some of you people are so condescending it's pathetic. What you've pointed out is common knowledge and should serve as an example for you not me. There's nothing you can do to stop these things from happening. Laying a guilt trip on mankind and declaring people to be the cause of something that's obviously been an ongoing process is wrong. People are being exploited on a mass scale... they appeal to their better side to get them to join a crusade that will lead them into poverty and substandard living conditions. The fact that they get them to do it willingly and happily is devilish in the extreme. In my mind, you're destined to become the Eloi.
Whatever.
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So, we've got you to admit that climate change does occur, now let's get into some detail of it's causes. Big volcanos and meteor impacts can cause worldwide climate change, it's well documented in history. How do these events cause that change? By injecting debris and gasses into the atmosphere in one big, sudden spike, the effects of this spike can last for decades. So the effects of gasses on climate change are well documented science. If one big spike can effect climate change, how is it the massive release of those same types of gasses by man over a hundred year period does not? Answer, it does, it just takes longer. We now have the same CO2 concentrations as during the Jurassic era, an era of hot temperatures, no glaciers and a temperate Northern Canada. Oh, and sea levels 200 meters higher than today(some of which was geological in origin). If that concentration caused that climate then, what scientific reason do you put forward for why it won't do the same in the near future now? Are you denying the science? There are natural processes that dump carbon into the atmosphere, there are processes that can then remove it, over time, so one time spike are eventually returned to pre spike levels. Man's carbon release has been ongoing for over one hundred years, we have doubled the natural level over that period and we are dumping more every day. The natural world cannot keep up and will do what it does when CO2 levels are that high, and you aren't going to like the effects, like air that normally stays around the Arctic coming for a visit, or hurricanes just getting bigger and bigger, summers hotter and hotter, plant species moving north, farmlands turning to dust, rainfall patterns changing and real estate disappearing under the ocean. If we stopped dumping carbon today these effects would continue for a few decades but then would start reversing. The only question now is would we survive the peak conditions if we stopped today. Or is it already too late.

Grumpy:cool:
 
Grumpy said:
Photizo



So, we've got you to admit that climate change does occur, now let's get into some detail of it's causes. Big volcanos and meteor impacts can cause worldwide climate change, it's well documented in history. How do these events cause that change? By injecting debris and gasses into the atmosphere in one big, sudden spike, the effects of this spike can last for decades. So the effects of gasses on climate change are well documented science. If one big spike can effect climate change, how is it the massive release of those same types of gasses by man over a hundred year period does not? Answer, it does, it just takes longer. We now have the same CO2 concentrations as during the Jurassic era, an era of hot temperatures, no glaciers and a temperate Northern Canada. Oh, and sea levels 200 meters higher than today(some of which was geological in origin). If that concentration caused that climate then, what scientific reason do you put forward for why it won't do the same in the near future now? Are you denying the science? There are natural processes that dump carbon into the atmosphere, there are processes that can then remove it, over time, so one time spike are eventually returned to pre spike levels. Man's carbon release has been ongoing for over one hundred years, we have doubled the natural level over that period and we are dumping more every day. The natural world cannot keep up and will do what it does when CO2 levels are that high, and you aren't going to like the effects, like air that normally stays around the Arctic coming for a visit, or hurricanes just getting bigger and bigger, summers hotter and hotter, plant species moving north, farmlands turning to dust, rainfall patterns changing and real estate disappearing under the ocean. If we stopped dumping carbon today these effects would continue for a few decades but then would start reversing. The only question now is would we survive the peak conditions if we stopped today. Or is it already too late.

Grumpy:cool:
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Well said! Surely he cannot be bone-headed enough to deny that...
 
Grumpy said:
so, we've got you to admit that climate change does occur
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You continue to construct straw man 'arguments'. My points/efforts have to do with Climate gate...the emails which exposed those foisting this scam upon the populous to be money grubbing frauds with no integrity bent on pushing a political agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with science. All of its under the 'color of science'. Those doing real science would welcome skepticism and not be offended, afraid, angry or resort to ad hominem attacks.

I'm not expecting any of you to admit that you've been duped...it is impossible for one who's deceived to know their plight.
 
1fi04.jpg


Read-Only said:
Well said! Surely he cannot be bone-headed enough to deny that...
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Photizo said:
I don't think any thoughtful person believes climate never changes, nor do/would they 'deny science'. Some of you people are so condescending it's pathetic. What you've pointed out is common knowledge and should serve as an example for you not me.
Click to expand...
Common knowledge today includes a basic understanding of the greenhouse effect . . . assuming common people have at least a high school education.

There's nothing you can do to stop these things from happening.
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That's a mix of denial and fatalism that comes from swallowing Right Wing propaganda. Every person on the planet can do something to reduce the amount of greenhouse gases they are producing. Regulations can be written and enforced which begin to reduce emissions from industrial and government sources.

Laying a guilt trip on mankind and declaring people to be the cause of something that's obviously been an ongoing process is wrong.
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That statement is false. Humans have altered the climate in recent history by treating the atmosphere as a garbage dump. They will continue to affect the climate unless the greenhouse gas emissions are reduced.

People are being exploited on a mass scale...
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Yes, by the Right Wing. The are being fed junk science, deregulation, and social conservative agendas all in one pill. And they're swallowing it.

they appeal to their better side to get them to join a crusade that will lead them into poverty and substandard living conditions.
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That's just junk economics thrown in on top of junk science. Reducing emissions has nothing to do with your fear of losing your income or losing your home. There is nothing substandard about living in a home heated and cooled by renewable energy sources, or paying taxes for dumping excess carbon out of a tailpipe instead of getting around in a vehicle that burns renewable fuel, improving mass transit, building bike lanes, etc. To jump to the conclusion that this creates poverty is just the desired result of the propaganda you're being fed. The Fat Cats have groomed you well.

The fact that they get them to do it willingly and happily is devilish in the extreme.
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That's precisely why Republicans have such a fascination with Satan, and why they are so quick to exploit your religious fundamentalism. They want you to believe that science is so evil that you'll go to the polls and effectively vote all the Fat Cat bills into law. That's why they're spending billions, to keep all those crusades funded, and to finance all those knuckleheaded AM radio jocks who are their mouthpieces, stirring up the the Archie Bunkers of the 21st century. And that's why the fundamentalist churches are so interested in joining the Fat Cats under the banner of junk peddlers such as Tea Baggers. Its all one big happy and mostly illiterate family.

In my mind, you're destined to become the Eloi.Whatever.
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Eloi of the Bible? (God?) :confused:
 
Photizo

You continue to construct straw man 'arguments'.
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They are certainly arguments you can't deal with, but they are not made of straw. What PRECISELY in what I said did you not follow?

My points/efforts have to do with Climate gate...the emails which exposed those foisting this scam upon the populous to be money grubbing frauds with no integrity bent on pushing a political agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with science.
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So, your whole effort is about non-existent distortions of the truth by the right wing nutjob caucus, paid for by the oil and coal industrialists? There is and never was a "Climate Gate". What there is and was is a concerted effort by the Koch brothers(et al)to try to discredit those scientists working on climate change, aided and abetted by delusional fools like you.

Those doing real science would welcome skepticism and not be offended, afraid, angry or resort to ad hominem attacks.
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Real scientists welcome sincere INFORMED scepticism, what we have no time for is propaganda masquerading as informed scepticism and the use of lies and distortions in support of oil and coal interests(irresponsible greed, to hell with the environmental mess they made), which are at odds with the interests of all the other living things on Earth. The Climate IS changing, no matter how many faux scandals the Kochs gin up, nor how many duped fools support their efforts. And our continued burning of fossil fuel IS the cause of recent changes in the environment. And man IS responsible for cleaning up our act. But "BENGHAZI!!!", right?

Grumpy:cool:
 
photizo said:
My points/efforts have to do with Climate gate...the emails which exposed those foisting this scam upon the populous to be money grubbing frauds with no integrity bent on pushing a political agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with science.
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And they offend you, make you angry enough to resort to ad hominem attacks? Are we supposed to conclude that money grubbing fraudulence among those researchers would make all the evidence and theory and stuff not exist?

This guy thinks you should not do that:
Those doing real science would welcome skepticism and not be offended, afraid, angry or resort to ad hominem attacks.
Click to expand...

I'm of two minds. On the one hand, ad hominem arguments like that (some climate researchers are frauds, therefore AGW is not happening) sometimes do actual damage to people, waste time and money, etc. On the other hand, if there were any chance that catching some climate researcher in money grubbing fraud would actually prevent AGW then we should do that: maybe we could bribe a few of them to commit some, or appeal to their sense of public duty.

btw: None of your last few links or postings have had anything to do with those emails. They've moved on, those sources of yours. They swing back, usually after enough time that people have forgotten what they said before, but meanwhile other nonsense occupies them - ships getting stuck in ice that the AGW people predicted, while some of the passengers were planning to check on the AGW people's predictions (they hit that prediction a bit too hard, eh? They went looking for ice, and it was looking for them, like a bear sneaking up on a hunter? funny - but your sources seemed to have missed the joke, for some reason).

Basically, you should by now - it's been years - have learned that parroting those sources's descriptions - of those emails, boats caught in ice, or anything else - does not recommend your efforts to people who speak science. Like the guy conned into shouting "I have three testicles" to his future inlaws, you are posting in front of people who know better, in several different ways. So if you are at all interested in getting people to take your point of view on climate change seriously, and you can't be bothered to learn to speak science yourself, you need new sources not devoted to getting people like you to post comically ignorant foolishness in public. That just damages your reputation, and by association prevents others from considering any real opinions you have.
 
How global warming works, in 35 words, or 52 seconds:


Earth transforms sunlight's visible light energy into infrared light energy, which leaves Earth slowly because it is absorbed by greenhouse gases. When people produce greenhouse gases, energy leaves Earth even more slowly – raising Earth's temperature.

And that, in an ultra-brief nutshell, is how global warming works.

MORE AT.......

http://phys.org/news/2014-01-global-words-seconds.html
 
Polar vortices:

Earth, 2009:
image.jpg


Saturn:
original.jpg

Discovered 2005 IIRC

Venus:
venus_south_vortices_esa_may_2006_big.jpg

Discovered 2006 or so IIRC.


Polar Vortices, clearly invented by the libderal-left media to link the cold weather in the US to climate change... :Eyeroll:
 
The storms spreading from the North Pole, if it becomes a feature of winter weather in the US, could be homeostasis.
The storms cover a huge area of land with white snow and ice, reflecting more heat back into space.
Result, lowering temperatures.
America gets a few decades or centuries of incredibly cruel and bitter winters, but the world is saved.
Thanks America!
 
Yeah. One year does not a trend make. 2012 was America's hottest year on record. November 2013 was Russia's hottest November on record and 2013 was Australia's hottest year on record.
 
True.
Weathermen are prone to make predictions from a few events.
Or, more accurately, their views are found newsworthy if they do so.
You can be sure that if the US has another winter storm next year, some climatologist who wants his name mentioned, will be predicting it as a weather pattern.
In the UK, when we had a few mild winters, we read that that was going to be the future pattern.
Same with wet winters, and more recently with cold winters.

Remember where you heard the homeostasis theory first though.
 
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