Christ's Victory Over Satan. Huh!?

Leo Volont

Registered Senior Member
Christ’s Victory Over Satan. Huh!?

One needs to wonder to what a great extent Faith must be applied to every aspect of Protestant Belief, for instance, it is often claimed by Protestants that Christ was Victorious over Satan. Really? Only by the Greatest Faith could anybody ever assert such a thing. If one were only consulting an ordinary lucid sense of Reality, it would rather seem more likely to suppose that Christ’s defeat could hardly have been more total. By what conceivable standards or scoring could it ever be said that Christ was Victorious? Indeed, if the Second Coming of Christ were to work out roughly as ‘well’ as the First, we could expect this Next Christ to be entirely snubbed in His drive to be King of Kings, so that He would leave behind no Moralized Institutions to govern Political, Economic and Social Conduct. In Three Years he would be remembered for only one complete Sermon and just several cryptic stories. That He would be executed by His own Co-Religionists for Blasphemy and Treason. And, finally, that what little bit He did teach would soon be set aside in favor of Doctrines set forth by one of His executioners, contradicting everything He had taught. I am caught in a bind here between wondering which is more difficult to imagine – that this could be construed as a Victory over Satan, or how it could possibly have come out any worse for Christ.

But the Battle went on. They should have a saying, “Don’t send a Boy to do a Mother’s Job”. With Christ killed and sent back to Heaven, His Mother Mary, shuttling back and forth between Heaven and Earth, was able to influence Church and Societal Institutions more in line with what Her Son would have wanted. I wish I could say that where Christ had lost the Battle, Mary had won the War, but after better than thirteen hundred years of progressively distancing Church Doctrine from Paul, the Invention of the Printing Press made the writings of Paul widely available, giving That Satan his second breath. This time, instead of Christ being Crucified, it was His Church and the Civilization around which it had been formed that were brought to collapse. Satan had won Round One, and Satan had won Round Two.

Now we have what survives of Christendom, which used to stretch from Finland to Sicily, from Ireland to Jerusalem, now occupying a bare City Block in Rome where the Pope, once the Secular Head of a Civilization, is now held under what amounts to a virtual house arrest. All Authority has been usurped away from The Church while those who call themselves “Christians” toss their votes to Secular Politicians who have no further political view beyond advancing the Cause of Usury and unrestricted exploitation. Our Statesman have learned that the ‘Christian Vote’ goes to the most extreme War Mongers. Is this not Satan winning Round Three.

Anyway, if there will be a Second Coming of Christ… if Satan has not intimidated Christ into cowering forever afraid in Heaven… then I hope Christ can attain to a higher Standard of Victory than last time. A Victory where He can achieve Executive Control over the Institutions of World Society. A Victory where He can set forth a complete catalogue of Moral and Religious Teachings. A Victory where He doesn’t get Murdered by those who should be rendering Him honor and obeisance. A Victory where His Enemies don’t get to write the Doctrines and toss out His Teachings. But mostly a Victory in which He doesn’t get His Butt kicked, not Once, not Twice, but Three Times. One more ‘Victory’ like that and Christ would really be screwed.
 
Leo Volont said:
Christ’s Victory Over Satan. Huh!?

One needs to wonder to what a great extent Faith must be applied to every aspect of Protestant Belief, for instance, it is often claimed by Protestants that Christ was Victorious over Satan. Really?
It was prophicied that a king would be born. This king would be the salvation of men/women. Only thru a man born without the seed of sin could all be saved. His only mission was that of our salvation against the enevitable destruction of all men/women of this earth. This could only be done by the willing sacrifice of himself the only true Son of God. In this way he was victorious against the will of satan whos purpose was that all man and women be destroyed and taken by sin.(satans purpose, that all men/women of free will choose self over the rightousness of the creator.)

Indeed, if the Second Coming of Christ were to work out roughly as ‘well’ as the First, we could expect this Next Christ to be entirely snubbed in His drive to be King of Kings, so that He would leave behind no Moralized Institutions to govern Political, Economic and Social Conduct. In Three Years he would be remembered for only one complete Sermon and just several cryptic stories.
The second coming of Christ is layed out in the revelation of John. In fact the one complete Sermon you speak of has already been spoken. Christ has already earned his seat at the right hand of God as king of all earth. That in all his glory, he will return to defeat the combined forces of all evil men under the leadership of the antichrist that should come together in the valley of decision.



Now we have what survives of Christendom, which used to stretch from Finland to Sicily, from Ireland to Jerusalem, now occupying a bare City Block in Rome where the Pope, once the Secular Head of a Civilization, is now held under what amounts to a virtual house arrest. All Authority has been usurped away from The Church while those who call themselves “Christians” toss their votes to Secular Politicians who have no further political view beyond advancing the Cause of Usury and unrestricted exploitation.

It should be noted that the true voice of God thru the scripture has never appointed a secular church as salvation. In fact, he warns against prayer to idols. The catholic church promotes that which God preaches against. St. Paul, St. Peter and Mother Marry have become idols of worship in the catholic church which is against his will. Only thru Christ can one be saved, so why do millions still pray to others?(another discussion on that subject alone)
In regard to the church, the church is simply put, the body of christ. Those that truely believe in him as saviour and Son of God. The church is composed of a vast population around the world from all sects of christianity.

Our Statesman have learned that the ‘Christian Vote’ goes to the most extreme War Mongers. Is this not Satan winning Round Three.
On this point you are right on. In the end, many will be led astray. The slight twisting of the truth (the scripture) is the devils main wepon. Using a facade of religion and false hope, he will lead man away from God. It has already been prophicied that a one world religion will reign in the end times, how else could this happen than by supposed Christians voting in those with the means to an end. The path of this world will continue towards world conflicts and disasters on a massive scale.

Anyway, if there will be a Second Coming of Christ… if Satan has not intimidated Christ into cowering forever afraid in Heaven… then I hope Christ can attain to a higher Standard of Victory than last time. A Victory where He can achieve Executive Control over the Institutions of World Society. A Victory where He can set forth a complete catalogue of Moral and Religious Teachings. A Victory where He doesn’t get Murdered by those who should be rendering Him honor and obeisance. A Victory where His Enemies don’t get to write the Doctrines and toss out His Teachings. But mostly a Victory in which He doesn’t get His Butt kicked, not Once, not Twice, but Three Times. One more ‘Victory’ like that and Christ would really be screwed.

You are obviously intelligent and well spoken, its unfortunate that you have not found his true purpose and meaning for us all.

That which Jesus did for us on earth was a victory for all to come. Without this ultimate sacrifice, all would be lost and we wouldn't be talking about it right now! The old testament cleary states what his purpose was on earth. It was not a battle against crime, or a political upheavel but a salvation of all men/women. Of course as the Son of God he could have forced that which he wants on all his creation but that would be against the free will instilled in the first man Adam. His second coming will be the victory and complete destruction of this world. He WILL set up a new world order under his rightouse kingdom. Many different interpretations of just what will happen are argued from the readings of the Revelation, but one message remains true in the scripture, he will be victourious and he will bring this world to an end.
 
thelight said:
You are obviously intelligent and well spoken, its unfortunate that you have not found his true purpose and meaning for us all.

That which Jesus did for us on earth was a victory for all to come. Without this ultimate sacrifice, all would be lost and we wouldn't be talking about it right now! The old testament cleary states what his purpose was on earth. It was not a battle against crime, or a political upheavel but a salvation of all men/women. Of course as the Son of God he could have forced that which he wants on all his creation but that would be against the free will instilled in the first man Adam. His second coming will be the victory and complete destruction of this world. He WILL set up a new world order under his rightouse kingdom. Many different interpretations of just what will happen are argued from the readings of the Revelation, but one message remains true in the scripture, he will be victourious and he will bring this world to an end.

Your assertion that Old Testament Prophecy somehow predicted a failed, powerless, victimized, defeated and murdered Messiah flies in the face of all Jewish Scholarship. Yes, the work of the Paulists after the fact was to comb the Jewish Scriptures for any hint to support their contention that the Messiah came to Fail, but at the time nobody knew Jewish Law better than the Pharisees and they Murdered Christ in order to preclude the Messianic Destiny, NOT to endorce it.

What the Pharisees did in murdering Christ was a kind of Test in the Omnipotence of God. They felt that if this Jesus were in fact the fulfillment of the Promise, then nothing they could do to kill Him could possibly operate and that the True Messianic Destiny could not be interrupted by any mere Committee of Men. So they took their ability to Murder Jesus as proof that He could not have possibly been the Messiah. Jews still fall behind that very same Logic. A Ture Messiah is not a Dead Messiah.

Then we have the Three Wise Men who answered their own Traditional Prophecies which foresaw in Jesus a King of Kings.

Against these expectations, both of the Jews and of the Oriental Traditions, we can only conclude that Christ's Mission FAILED.

Then we can look to later History for any sign of Victory. If Paul were right, then we could have expected to find a Happy and Appeased God, content with Sin and tolerant of all Human behavior, atoned for by the Almighty Blood of His Sacrificed Son. But such a Vision is nowhere on the historical horizon. What we do see is plague, famine, invasion dealt out over and over again. It is rather to be supposed that God is punishing us for having Murdered his Messiah.

We can see this most evidently in the Life of Saint Francis, who, being horrified in contemplating the Crucifixion of Christ, forswore its Salvation, not wishing to contribute anything to the pain inflicted upon the Suffering Christ. Francis offered instead, that if somebody should be made to suffer, that it should be himself. God took him up on the deal and instantly struck him with the Five Wounds of the Cross which he suffered and bore for the rest of his life. This seems to conform more to the model whereby the Crucifixion of Christ can be seen as a Crime to be atoned for, and not as a willing Sacrifice that in itself atoned for all Sin past, present, and future. The existence of quite a string of subsequent "Stigmatics" also goes to support the notion that the Crucifixion was an event to be atoned for in kind.


Now, your cavaler confidence in the Second Coming is not much more than a repeat of the Expectations the Jews had of the First Coming. You need to be cautioned to understand that the Free Will which you have already mentioned stands in the way of any automatic Victory. Again, we may have People who will exercise that same Logic of the Pharisee upon the Second Coming, that is, IF WE CAN KILL HIM, THEN HE ISN'T CHRIST. The Second Coming may turn out to be the same aborted mess as the First Coming had been. People like yourself will be stuck with the argument that with a Second Murder we are now Twice as Saved.

Yes, the World will End...just as it ended last time. Christ was speaking of the End of an Age. It was the End of the Age of the Patriarchs. The Temple was Destroyed and the Jews dispersed. Then came the Age of Mary which itself will soon come to its End. I don't give it more than 8 years.
 
thelight said:
Sorry, I have put alot of the rebuttles in the paragraph you wrote.

Ooooops.

Everyonce in awhile one of my cats will walk across my keyboard as I am up getting a drink of water or something, and I will find several hours work deleted. But I console myself that the second essay always comes out more streamlined and pointed than the first had been.
 
By what conceivable standards or scoring could it ever be said that Christ was Victorious?

Christs first victory over satan was prophecied before his birth. As the lamb of God, he was to be the salvation of man thru his selfless sacrifice. In being crucified, he fulfilled the prophecy and won salvation for all man/women. I would call this a significant win, for without this sacrifice, all would be lost to satan.
 
SnakeLord said:
Nice guy.

Of course you can pick apart the bible looking for only the underlining message of curse and damnation but if you read the complete story you will find that it is his goal that man/women choose of free will to follow and praise that which gave life. The end of this world is a must. For with death comes birth, the birth of a new world under his righteous kingdom that there will be joy and light for ever and ever Amen!
 
Your assertion that old testament prophecy somehow predicted a failed, powerless, victimized, defeated and murdered.....

OF COURSE it was predicted that there would be TWO seperate appearances of the Lord. Zechariah 9:9 and Zechariah 9:14 The first speaks of a Lord of salvation. (or Lamb of God as prophecied in other old testament scriptures). He is to come to the people as righteous and with salvation, GENTLE and riding on a donkey.. this is not the way a conqueror of worlds would ride in to do battle. Clearly the prophecy of the "Lamb of God", and riding in on a donkey is to give the reader an understanding that his salvation was not to be brought by force or almighty power but by humble truth and love. The Jewish scholars may have believed that if in Zechariah 9:10-13 it talks of a Lord that will take away the chariots of Ephraim and war horses of Jerusalem then after proclaim peace to the world that this means an end to the Jewish suffering of Roman time by means of power and upheavel by the King of Kings. Of course they wanted an end to their suffering, who could blame them, but to say that the following message in Zechariah 9:14 was to happen at the same time just doesn't make any sense.By the way how many Jews now sacrifice to God for there salvation? If he really had not come to sacrifice himself, then why are they not obeying the old covenant?

In Zechariah 9:14 it talks of his reappearance as the Sovereign Lord appearing above them. "On that day" it says, I will save them as the flock of his people. This is the second coming of The Lord. The New Testament only talks of what is to come after this as the first prophecy of his birth and proclimation of peace to come has been fulfilled.

What the Pharisees did in murdering Christ was a kind of Test in the Omnipotence of God. They felt that if this Jesus were in fact the fulfillment of the Promise, then nothing they could do to kill Him could possibly operate
A Ture Messiah is not a Dead Messiah.

The true messiah is NOT DEAD but lives. This is the GOOD NEWS that was to be told. That which they killed was merely his mortal body, but that which they cannot kill is the ever living spirit of The Lord Jesus Christ. That his resurection is the proof that he is King of Kings and salvation to all. Just as he was before mortal birth, he is again.

Then we can look to later History for any sign of Victory. If Paul were right, then we could have expected to find a Happy and Appeased God, content with Sin and tolerant of all Human behavior, atoned for by the Almighty Blood of His Sacrificed Son.

It was the sin of man that caused the sorrow and anger of God. That his creation, a stuborn people have chosen not to believe in Him, and follow their own self indulgent beliefs, that caused the Lord to allow himself a sacrifice for man. His sacrifice gives all mankind the ability to attone for their sins thru his blood, but does not give us the free pass to heaven. We must still make an honest repentance and be baptized in his holiness to truely recieve his blessing in heaven. The Lords Sacrifice did not make God happy, nor has he ever been content or tolerant of mans sinning. That His only Son gave himself as a sacrifice DID please him. But that after His only Son should be sacrificed for man and that man continue to show contempt by sinning is what ultimately leads to the end.

We can see this most evidently in the Life of Saint Francis,
The existence of quite a string of subsequent "Stigmatics" also goes to support the notion that the Crucifixion was an event to be atoned for in kind.

Again I state that my understanding as written, is that we do not take for ourselves the sins of others, as this is practiced by the Catholics and considered idol worship. To become a saint of worship or pray to a saint is against his will. That we worship and pray to the one true God and only thru his Son shall we be saved.
 
Leo Volont said:
Christ’s Victory Over Satan. Huh!?

One needs to wonder to what a great extent Faith must be applied to every aspect of Protestant Belief, for instance, it is often claimed by Protestants that Christ was Victorious over Satan. Really? Only by the Greatest Faith could anybody ever assert such a thing. If one were only consulting an ordinary lucid sense of Reality, it would rather seem more likely to suppose that Christ’s defeat could hardly have been more total. By what conceivable standards or scoring could it ever be said that Christ was Victorious? Indeed, if the Second Coming of Christ were to work out roughly as ‘well’ as the First, we could expect this Next Christ to be entirely snubbed in His drive to be King of Kings, so that He would leave behind no Moralized Institutions to govern Political, Economic and Social Conduct. In Three Years he would be remembered for only one complete Sermon and just several cryptic stories. That He would be executed by His own Co-Religionists for Blasphemy and Treason. And, finally, that what little bit He did teach would soon be set aside in favor of Doctrines set forth by one of His executioners, contradicting everything He had taught. I am caught in a bind here between wondering which is more difficult to imagine – that this could be construed as a Victory over Satan, or how it could possibly have come out any worse for Christ.

But the Battle went on. They should have a saying, “Don’t send a Boy to do a Mother’s Job”. With Christ killed and sent back to Heaven, His Mother Mary, shuttling back and forth between Heaven and Earth, was able to influence Church and Societal Institutions more in line with what Her Son would have wanted. I wish I could say that where Christ had lost the Battle, Mary had won the War, but after better than thirteen hundred years of progressively distancing Church Doctrine from Paul, the Invention of the Printing Press made the writings of Paul widely available, giving That Satan his second breath. This time, instead of Christ being Crucified, it was His Church and the Civilization around which it had been formed that were brought to collapse. Satan had won Round One, and Satan had won Round Two.

Now we have what survives of Christendom, which used to stretch from Finland to Sicily, from Ireland to Jerusalem, now occupying a bare City Block in Rome where the Pope, once the Secular Head of a Civilization, is now held under what amounts to a virtual house arrest. All Authority has been usurped away from The Church while those who call themselves “Christians” toss their votes to Secular Politicians who have no further political view beyond advancing the Cause of Usury and unrestricted exploitation. Our Statesman have learned that the ‘Christian Vote’ goes to the most extreme War Mongers. Is this not Satan winning Round Three.

Anyway, if there will be a Second Coming of Christ… if Satan has not intimidated Christ into cowering forever afraid in Heaven… then I hope Christ can attain to a higher Standard of Victory than last time. A Victory where He can achieve Executive Control over the Institutions of World Society. A Victory where He can set forth a complete catalogue of Moral and Religious Teachings. A Victory where He doesn’t get Murdered by those who should be rendering Him honor and obeisance. A Victory where His Enemies don’t get to write the Doctrines and toss out His Teachings. But mostly a Victory in which He doesn’t get His Butt kicked, not Once, not Twice, but Three Times. One more ‘Victory’ like that and Christ would really be screwed.

It is a surprise from you.

If at all Christ seemed defeated it is by the humanity not by Satan. If God has no hesitation in wiping out humanity then Jesus seemed to borrow time for the humanity from God himself. May be with his death he would have expected the humanity to exercise the freewill with conscience (not with fear) in future escaping from the total-wipeout by God accelerated by Satan.

thelight said:
That His only Son gave himself as a sacrifice DID please him.
A God being pleased with the sacrifice of His Son (only!) does not fit well with his Father status. Rather, the extent to which Jesus went to save humanity might have contained God's wrath on humanity. Jesus' praying during the night before crucifixion was for stopping the impending disaster on humanity rather than to stop his own death as an extreme way to stop God's wrath.
It seems Jesus was fighting a loosing battle against the God's will (and Satan's too) and succeeded only templorarily ! In his second coming he might not repeat his mistake. ;)
 
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A God being pleased with the sacrifice of His Son (only!) does not fit well with his Father status. Rather, the extent to which Jesus went to save humanity might have contained God's wrath on humanity.

I was stating that his selfless act as your stating is what pleased him, Not the cruciftion.

Jesus' praying during the night

"Forgive them father for they know not what they do."

before crucifixion was for stopping the impending disaster on humanity rather than to stop his own death as an extreme way to stop God's wrath.
It seems Jesus was fighting a loosing battle against the God's will (and Satan's too) and succeeded only templorarily ! In his second coming he might not repeat his mistake. ;)[

You are right about stopping Gods wrath on the human race. It was only Jesus that could save us through his pure sacrifice. He knew that it was to be this way long before he was born into this world. It was the only way to save those of unclean spirit and give us a second chance that thru him we may be saved. Revelation speaks of the second coming and that as you state "repeat his mistake" is not going to happen. After his resurection there was great rejoicing in the Kingdom of heaven and the Lord was given the scroll of life that he might rule over all of earth as righteous king. His glory will be seen, and those agains him will tremble in fear and nashing of teeth.
 
Of course you can pick apart the bible looking for only the underlining message of curse and damnation but if you read the complete story you will find that it is his goal that man/women choose of free will to follow and praise that which gave life. The end of this world is a must. For with death comes birth, the birth of a new world under his righteous kingdom that there will be joy and light for ever and ever Amen!

Yes, yes yes, *yawn*, enough with the brainless sermons.

You're such a hypocrite.. If some guy attempted to put an end to the world, you'd be the first to say he should be stopped, but if some old hippy jew says he's gonna do it, you think it's wonderful. What a fool.
 
thelight said:
I was stating that his selfless act as your stating is what pleased him, Not the cruciftion.
I did not say crucifixion, but sacrifice (selfless act). I still believe God cannot be 'pleased' with Jesus' sacrifice but was stopped to consider Jesus' plea.

"Forgive them father for they know not what they do."
Ofcourse, his murder should not add further fuel to the fire.

You are right about stopping Gods wrath on the human race. It was only Jesus that could save us through his pure sacrifice. He knew that it was to be this way long before he was born into this world. It was the only way to save those of unclean spirit and give us a second chance that thru him we may be saved.
The whole theme was that the sacrifice was for sinners. Not for future/chronic sinners whatever their faith would be.
 
"END OF THE WORLD/NEW BIRTH"
this literalist belief come of you Christians believe in--also shared by many new agers--of the coming of the end of the world and then new birth? is VERY VERY dangerous. This is because you have totally misunderstood what it really means due to your indoctrination in literalist understandings of your religious writings, which Is mythology

It is not an end of the REAL world that is really meant in its deep mythic sense, but the death of your worldVIEW!....are you with me. remember what i have been trying to communicate about the original hallucinogenic sacraments? well THat is what 'ends' after ingestion. the sense of yourself/your egoic boundary. you then see with fresh eyes. Then on integration you may feeel born again and the world is relivened

Taking you myth as LITERAL means that your interpretation becomes distorted. so you project OUt what is supposed to be an inner process. So your misunderstanding will justify all kinds of outer conflict, war, and even all out nuclear war, when then you will foolishly imagine this is what your myth's talking about, the 'end of the world'---obliterated in radioactive 'white light', can you not see how dangerous your beliefs can be when not under-stood?....BushW is a is a prime example of this major mis-understanding. there he is a 'born again' Christian, and has created terrible destruction and death and seeks to go on. when he makse speeches he uses archaic biblical lingo to justify how he plans to bring 'God's kingdom' to the 'evil' world!
 
Leo,

I don't understand why somebody jumped my post and locked in in lala land on the siamese twin thread. I thought it was a perfectly fine response.

I don't quite follow you on this one:

Don’t send a Boy to do a Mother’s Job”. With Christ killed and sent back to Heaven, His Mother Mary, shuttling back and forth between Heaven and Earth,

I would say don't send Mary to do Jesus' job.

1st Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ist Corinthians 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


Where does the bible say Mary is in control of things?

By the way Satan has been God's punching bag from beginning to end:


Round 1:

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Lightning falls real fast, and Jesus was there to see it. How about Satan is knocked out in round 1 before the opening bell stops ringing.


Round 2:

OK, so God gets bloody in this one

1st Corinthians 2: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Uh-oh Satan, the prince of darkness, screwed up again what a dupe! Satan's taking an awful bad whooping. He went for the big sucker punch.

Round 3:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

How about Satan is thrown out of the ring, the building, and clean off of the face of the earth. It's over. Curtains for Satan! And Jesus aint even worked up a sweat!

If this is a pitty party GW bash I'll kindly step out of this thread.

Perhaps everyone prefers Satan ..er I mean Sadam and his sadistic sons over the elected government they have today. 300 thousand people in mass graves -- I guess Sadam keeps the grave diggers employed. Rape houses and torture chambers supervised by the now dead sons-- well anybody for some good home movies? Maybe they would like to go over there and live under an animal dictator like that! I'll choose GW anyday over that!
 
I was about to reply to duendy's post on BushW. After reading your post i stopped on the track. Do you really believe BushW is going to bring God's kingdom on earth??!! OMG!!
 
Woody said:
If this is a pitty party GW bash I'll kindly step out of this thread.

Perhaps everyone prefers Satan ..er I mean Sadam and his sadistic sons over the elected government they have today.
So Bush fought over Satan Saddam !
300 thousand people in mass graves -- I guess Sadam keeps the grave diggers employed. Rape houses and torture chambers supervised by the now dead sons
Bush is certainly lesser evil, he got only 100 thousand on his account. Not to mention the rapes, torture chambers that BushW is happily unaware of in his kingdom (US and some of its despotic allies).

well anybody for some good home movies? Maybe they would like to go over there and live under an animal dictator like that! I'll choose GW anyday over that!
Who ever said they would prefer Saddam over Bush to live under?? Everyone wants God's kingdom you know. God bless Bush. yeah..
 
everneo,

Not to mention the rapes, torture chambers that BushW is happily unaware of in his kingdom

Could you please clarify. I live in the USA and I'm not aware of them either. I certainly would not be happy to ignore it.

We, by the way, have an elected government, not a kingdom.
 
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