Christian Love taking place in Nigeria !

[Proud_Muslim]

As it appears, some Muslim Arabic peoples have peacefully economically migrated into yet another peoples country. Well that is according to Proud Muslim’s theory that Arabs are in North Africa via peaceful and natural economic migration. (Incidentally, I am still wondering why there seems to be a rub with the Kurds in the North of Iraq …as your theory on peaceful economic migration would suggest all peoples love to have Arabs economically migrate into their countries). Nevertheless . . . . . .

What are you implying here my dear ?? those MUSLIMS killed in Nigeria are NATIVE AFRICANS who are Muslims ! get your facts right.

I am wondering - Proud Muslim, as Muslims are killing Xians as well – then do you condemn the Muslim Terrorists in Nigeria?

YES I DO, KILLING IS WRONG AND IF MUSLIMS DO THAT THEN THEY ARE WRONG AND I CONDEMN THEM.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Which, incidentally, is the general point that PM, myself, and others have made regarding violence and Islam.

He's calling into question the standard by which Islam is maligned by a number of posters. I tend to agree.

But there's a faction of haters here who believe that it's always about Islam, all the time. Thus, what is a forgivable or understandable error of being human in others is a hideous crime for Muslims, according to these overly-judgmental, apparently-undereducated anti-Islamic critics.

Look at how people presume the worst about Muslims. I'm actually considering carrying a copy of the Quran when I fly to Vegas next month, see how that goes over. At worst, I'll get what I deserve for f@cking with TSA, at best I'll be surprised. Of course, then I would have to decide whether or not to actually read the thing on the airplane, and at some point that's just unnecessarily provocative.

You will be labelled as terrorist for just carrying the Noble Quran, some people are pathetic idiots.

I agree with you my friend, I dont condemn christianity for this, my whole point was why the hell break lose when Muslims kill but the wolrd goes silent when muslims are killed ??

When a jew or a christian or any non muslim commits a crime, he goes on trail but when a muslim commits a crime, it is Islam which goes on trail !!

PATHETIC !!

 

[Bells]

When a jew or a christian or any non muslim commits a crime, he goes on trail but when a muslim commits a crime, it is Islam which goes on trail !!

I agree with you here PM. I was talking to my class about this very issue last week. Most in my class had been unable to make the connection but once I started to tell them of the news stories of the last few years, they too realised that it was in fact the case.

I recalled back to the day of the Oklahoma bombing and the first suspects who were being searched for were 3 men of Middle Eastern appearance who had been spotted driving down the freeway away from the Federal building at around the time it blew up. The same goes for the bomb that exploded during the Atlanta olympics.

The Oklahoma bombings proved to the unbelieving world that they were wrong in their manner of thinking. The world had come to understand that it was primarily Muslims who blew up bombs but it's not. The situation in Nigeria as it is in Sudan and in Aceh is that it is portrayed as religious clashes, and while that is the case to a certain extent, it should also be seen to be tribal clashes. In such areas of the world, memories are too long and people kill others for crimes committed several hundred years ago. The same situation happened in Kosovo, where thousands of Muslims were murdered by a hateful and resentful Yugoslavian led army in a disgusting act of genocide not just because they were Muslim, but also because they were Albanian and that hatred was used by Milosovic to render the country into a frenzy of hate so that common sense and common decency went out the window to be replaced by bloodlust.

But in a small thing I do disagree with you. We here in Australia do hear of the atrocities committed by both Christians and Muslims in countries like Nigeria and in Aceh in Indonesia. However for every other crime, you're right, if the criminal is a Muslim it is quickly pointed out by the reporter, but if the criminal is a Christian, it's never pointed out. When I pointed this out to my class, some were somewhat horrified at the double standard that is constantly present in the world media in how it reports its stories. In a case in Sydney a couple of years ago, a girl was gang raped by a group of Lebanese men and this rape was atrocious. What they did to this girl was absolutely appalling and it's a miracle she even managed to survive. But the media pointed out that the rapists had been Lebanese and what resulted was that mosques throughout Sydney were attacked and Muslims walking the streets were attacked and told to 'go home' and the 'we don't want rapists like you here'. While the families of these 20 or so men supported them, the general Lebanese community were appalled and some were even calling for the death penalty for these animals. One Lebanese cleric made several statements to the media stating that since Australia doesn't have the death penalty, that these animals should be sent back to Lebanon and face life imprisonment in a prison that would make them suffer for the rest of their lives or face the firing squad. However, as I pointed out to my class, these comments from the Lebanese community were rarely reported in the general media. It is a sad situation and you're right, it is pathetic. I've asked some Muslims if the situation is reversed in some Muslim countries and some have replied that in a way yes it is. Who knows really why this kind of behaviour happens. Just a shame that it does.

 

[path]

This sounds like the millenias old conflict between farmers and herders, we had something very similar in the US in the 1800s and called them range wars.

Muslim Fulani cattle herders and Christian Tarok farmers have been clashing in central Nigeria for more than two months.

Extremly unfortunate and as usual differences in religion only exacerbate the problem.

 

[Michael]

I agree with you, I dont blame christianity for this, I dont say christianity is evil, I dont ask every christian in the world to stand up and condemn it, the problem is the reaction of some islamophobes here in this forum, instead of condeming what happened, they started pointing the fingers at Muslims ( like the case with our jewish hater, spidergoat ) and others tried to find excuses ! UNBELIEVABLE !

Imagine if Muslims did this ! the hell will break lose...Madrid bombing claimed less lives but yet draw 3 days continous coverage, why ? because the victims are non muslims and the ones who did it were apparantly Muslims !!! what happened in Nigeria did not even attract small moving news barline in any major American News networks !! You just need to wonder why this BLATANT hypocrisy ???

Why Muslim victims of 'christian/ western/ israeli/ hindu/ buddist terrorism' are worthless ?

1) I'm waiting for you to condemn the Muslim killers as vehemently as you did the Xians.

2) I’m wondering how many news papers articles in the ME published article about the number of North Koreans that have starved to death this week (which all, added up over the last decade, may end in being millions)?

That in mind, are you suggesting all ME newspapers are hypocritical because they published many more articles about the bombings in Saudi Arabia and not enough about the plight of NKs? OR is it news agency tend to publish things that happen in house (so to speak).

 

[Michael]

What are you implying here my dear ?? those MUSLIMS killed in Nigeria are NATIVE AFRICANS who are Muslims ! get your facts right.

Firstly, I didn’t see this post before I posted. And I do know that you of course condem any sort of killing in the like manner. But you do appear as one side as the Xians and Jewish here.

Anyway, from your own posted website:

Justice Orire, a retired judge, also urged the Plateau State governor to clarify reports that he told non-indigenous people to leave.
BBC Africa analyst Elizabeth Blunt says that "'non-indigenes" means the Muslim community, even though it may be 100 years since their families settled in the area.

I was under the impression these were Arab, but maybe not? It does illustrate the point though – that people are always going to be unhappy about another people coming in and taking their land. Ie: Presently in Palestine, Iraq, (even New Zealand was in the news this morning). I don’t think that whenever there is significant number of people migrating into a new land (economic or otherwise) that the people there are going to welcome the new peoples, especially when their of a significantly different culture.

 

[DoctorNO]

You know, it also occurs to me, as Dr. No points out, that these aren't actually Christians who committed this atrocity:Let me guess, let me guess ... everyone knows that they're killing each other over religion, right?

It has nothing to do with economy? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with economic conditions and resources?

Nah ... it must be the religions.

Religious violence arent always purely religious. Sometimes it has something to do with economy. Sometimes it has something to do with politics. Sometimes it has something to do with ethics & emotions.

You know, it also occurs to me, as Dr. No points out, that these aren't actually Christians who committed this atrocity

That wasnt me. For me those people are christians so long as they call themselves christians. For me those people are muslims so long as they call themselves muslims.

 

[DoctorNO]

Originally Posted by Proud_Muslim
When a jew or a christian or any non muslim commits a crime, he goes on trail but when a muslim commits a crime, it is Islam which goes on trail !!

I agree with you here PM. I was talking to my class about this very issue last week. Most in my class had been unable to make the connection but once I started to tell them of the news stories of the last few years, they too realised that it was in fact the case.

Ah this would make an interesting thread.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=572536#post572536

 

[Tiassa]

That wasnt me. For me those people are christians so long as they call themselves christians. For me those people are muslims so long as they call themselves muslims.

By that logic, Saddam Hussein is the legally-elected president of Iraq. By that logic, the Taleban are the legitimate rulers of Afghanistan.

More neutrally, have you ever met an atheist who claims to believe in God? We've had a couple of those discussions here over the years. Okay, we've had one, I think.

At any rate, I was looking at the bit about retaliation, which is a clear doctrinal conflict.

Religious violence arent always purely religious. Sometimes it has something to do with economy. Sometimes it has something to do with politics. Sometimes it has something to do with ethics & emotions.

Religion is merely an identity politic. Does the massacre in Rwanda mean we should get rid of long sharp things like machetes? Does September 11 mean we should get rid of boxcutters? Does Florida, 2000, indicate we should do away with voting?

Underneath it all is a lack of education. Education and economy are closer to the heart of street crime than race; closer to the heart of war than reality; closer to the heart of terrorism than religion. The religious identity politic must be put in motion somehow.

In Germany, it wasn't just because they were Jews, but because Jews were held responsible for economic problems.

Atheism isn't responsible for Communist atrocities; Communism, technically, isn't even responsible. (Which is also part of the irony of calling Saddam "Hitler" when "Stalin" is definitively more appropriate and equally horrific at least.)

If the Palestinians weren't Muslim, would they be any happier about being moved out of the way to make room for the Jews?

If an Iraqi isn't Muslim, would s/he be any happier about their children being blown up?

If an Afghani isn't Muslim, would having a wedding party blown up by a gunship be any more amusing or rewarding?

If we look to Darfur or Nigeria, if there were no Abramists present, would the people be any happier about starving?

At any rate; religion is a tool, albeit an antiquated one that, in its current forms on Earth, seems to be on its way out the door. Of course, like any good drunk (Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord; He has trampled down the vineyards where the grapes of wrath are stored), religion will kick and scream all the way out to the sidewalk, and then some. But I really don't think we're done as a species with religious thought. Rather, it seems we've come within sight of the end of the Abramic scheme as humanity sinks back toward an unthinking mire in which questions of Life, the Universe, and Everything are no longer worth considering. It's not that humanity will wake up and be rational suddenly, but rather that we'll decide we're done with religion, and then go on inventing some new word to call it.

It's mostly phallism, anyway.

(Seriously ... the Trinity? If you are a statistically-normal male, open your pants and look down. You'll see the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit hanging 'twixt your legs.)

 

[Proud_Muslim]

I agree with you here PM. I was talking to my class about this very issue last week. Most in my class had been unable to make the connection but once I started to tell them of the news stories of the last few years, they too realised that it was in fact the case.

Thank you bells for your insightful interesting post ! this double standards and hypocrisy in reporting world events specially those dealing with Muslims have to stop.

No matter what Muslims do ( like the Lebanese cleric you refered to ) and like so many other Muslim imams who condemn and continue to speak out against terrorism, Islam and Muslims will always be ' terrorists' in the western media.

Make you wonder who really runs most of the western media ???

 

[Proud_Muslim]

1) I'm waiting for you to condemn the Muslim killers as vehemently as you did the Xians.

Are you blind ? scroll up and read ! beside, I am still waiting to hear your condemnation for what happened to muslims in Nigeria !!

2) I’m wondering how many news papers articles in the ME published article about the number of North Koreans that have starved to death this week (which all, added up over the last decade, may end in being millions)?

You would be amazed to know that our Media in the middle east cover more world news than any other media in the world.

http://english.aljazeera.net

That in mind, are you suggesting all ME newspapers are hypocritical because they published many more articles about the bombings in Saudi Arabia and not enough about the plight of NKs? OR is it news agency tend to publish things that happen in house (so to speak).

This is not the issue discussed here ! we are discussing why the hell break lose when muslims kill ( headlines and live coverage ) but the world goes silent when Muslims are killed !

Just look at how the western media covered Madrid bombings and how they covered the massacre against Muslims in Nigeria !!

More muslims died in Nigeria bombings than westernerns in Madrid bombings but yet I did not see LIVE COVERAGE for this massacre !!!

HYPOCRISY AT ITS PEAK !

 

[DoctorNO]

By that logic, Saddam Hussein is the legally-elected president of Iraq. By that logic, the Taleban are the legitimate rulers of Afghanistan.

What I said is only applicable to religion. There are hundreds of sects in each religion so I don’t give a damn who claims to be a true Christian or muslim. So in this case I generalize the way an Encyclopedia does.

More neutrally, have you ever met an atheist who claims to believe in God? We've had a couple of those discussions here over the years. Okay, we've had one, I think.

What are you getting at?

At any rate, I was looking at the bit about retaliation, which is a clear doctrinal conflict.Religion is merely an identity politic. Does the massacre in Rwanda mean we should get rid of long sharp things like machetes? Does September 11 mean we should get rid of boxcutters? Does Florida, 2000, indicate we should do away with voting?

No. Your examples however are not very relevant to the issues of religious violence. For your examples uses physical objects. Things that don’t influence the mind.

Underneath it all is a lack of education. Education and economy are closer to the heart of street crime than race; closer to the heart of war than reality; closer to the heart of terrorism than religion. The religious identity politic must be put in motion somehow.

Perhaps. Depends on who does the educating.

In Germany, it wasn't just because they were Jews, but because Jews were held responsible for economic problems.

Mostly, I think.

If the Palestinians weren't Muslim, would they be any happier about being moved out of the way to make room for the Jews?

If an Iraqi isn't Muslim, would s/he be any happier about their children being blown up?

If an Afghani isn't Muslim, would having a wedding party blown up by a gunship be any more amusing or rewarding?

They wont be happier but they wont be as violent either, especially if they were Hindus & Buddhists instead. And as many examples in history nonviolent resistence always end in happy endings. Like the early Christians, Gandhi & Martin Luther King jr.

At any rate; religion is a tool

Religion is more of an ideology than a tool. You know the difference? A tool is something that submits to you. An ideology is something you submit into.

(Seriously ... the Trinity? If you are a statistically-normal male, open your pants and look down. You'll see the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit hanging 'twixt your legs.)

And the asshole is Prophet Mohammed, eh?

 

[Bells]

They wont be happier but they wont be as violent either, especially if they were Hindus & Buddhists instead. And as many examples in history nonviolent resistence always end in happy endings. Like the early Christians, Gandhi & Martin Luther King jr.

You are aware that many Palestinians are Christians right? And you are aware the Hindus are known to go on rampages against Muslims and Christians? And please tell me that you didn't just say that early Christians were non-violent. You do know that early Christians are renown for their bloodlust and violent acts which make the violence we are witness to today pale in comparison? Early Christians practiced non-violent resistance... LMFAO! Read some history books NO, please!

Religion is more of an ideology than a tool. You know the difference? A tool is something that submits to you. An ideology is something you submit into.

Hmmm true, I agree with you there. But do all Muslims pick up arms as a submission to an ideology taught to them by a group that preaches the extreme and false ideals of that religion? Do all Christians, Jews, Hindus do the same? No they don't. Only the few who are weak, lost, stupid, etc submit to the ideologies of the deranged. The majority usually just steer clear as one steers clear of the morons who stand on benches in malls screaming out that God told them the end is near. Have all Muslims submitted to the ideology preached by OBL? No they haven't. The majority see OBL for what he really is. A sick individual who has no idea of what Islam really means.

 

[DoctorNO]

You are aware that many Palestinians are Christians right?

Many as in 1%? And I wonder how many of that 1% became suicide bombers. Can you name just one?

And you are aware the Hindus are known to go on rampages against Muslims and Christians?

There are no hindus in the examples given by tiassa.

And please tell me that you didn't just say that early Christians were non-violent.

They are non-violent, bells. The Christians from 30-300 B.C. They even delighted in being fed to the Lions.

You do know that early Christians are renown for their bloodlust and violent acts which make the violence we are witness to today pale in comparison? Early Christians practiced non-violent resistance... LMFAO! Read some history books NO, please!

Oh bells I have been reading history books. And by what I have studied you are referring to the christians of the Dark Ages.

Maybe it was you who needs to brush up on her history lessons?

Hmmm true, I agree with you there. But do all Muslims pick up arms as a submission to an ideology taught to them by a group that preaches the extreme and false ideals of that religion? Do all Christians, Jews, Hindus do the same? No they don't. Only the few who are weak, lost, stupid, etc submit to the ideologies of the deranged. The majority usually just steer clear as one steers clear of the morons who stand on benches in malls screaming out that God told them the end is near. Have all Muslims submitted to the ideology preached by OBL? No they haven't. The majority see OBL for what he really is. A sick individual who has no idea of what Islam really means.

What the world needs is an Islamic Reformation. Something that will infuse variety into Islam.

 

[Michael]

Are you blind ? scroll up and read ! beside, I am still waiting to hear your condemnation for what happened to muslims in Nigeria [/B]

Sorry, my page was open from when I posted last, so I hadn’t see the last 5 posts (including your’s).

Of course I condemn the actions of anyone, regardless of religion, that result in the killing of innocent people.

To make it clear – I believe it is woefully wrong and evil for Christians in Rwanda (or Iraq for that matter) to kill innocent others especially targeting killings at neighboring Muslims.

This is not the issue discussed here ! we are discussing why the hell break lose when muslims kill ( headlines and live coverage ) but the world goes silent when Muslims are killed ! [/B]

But you posted from a European website the BBC. So yes there is some European coverage – just not as much as say when something happens in Briton (like if Posh were to show some breast

Anyway, that was my point, sure ME Media may cover some aspects of the brutal North Korean regime (just as BBC covered some aspects of Rwanda). However, relatively speaking, Al Jazeera is going to make more news stories when it comes to events that occur in the ME. And as such European news channels will do likewise when I comes to events in Europe.

Anyway,
1) The whole world doesn’t always concern itself. Here in Australia there was a significant mention of the train bombings the day of and it dropped off quite quickly afterwards. More than likely, most non-news-ophiles didn’t even know it had happened. In China or Vietnam who knows, maybe hardly any mention at all?

2) The Europeans and Americans are now fascinated with anything Islam – especially related to terror. This being the end result of some Muslims declaring a holy war and successfully bringing down two big buildings in downtown New York. What can I say, people find religious fundamentalism to be interesting – why do you think there were so many Arny movies with Muslim Terrorists. People like that to read or hear about that sort of stuff.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Many as in 1%? And I wonder how many of that 1% became suicide bombers. Can you name just one?


There are no hindus in the examples given by tiassa.


They are non-violent, bells. The Christians from 30-300 B.C. They even delighted in being fed to the Lions.


Oh bells I have been reading history books. And by what I have studied you are referring to the christians of the Dark Ages.

Maybe it was you who needs to brush up on her history lessons?




What the world needs is an Islamic Reformation. Something that will infuse variety into Islam.

**************
M*W: Pardon me, boys, but I don't give a rat's ass about Nigeria. Why should I?

 

[okinrus]

You do know that early Christians are renown for their bloodlust and violent acts which make the violence we are witness to today pale in comparison? Early Christians practiced non-violent resistance... LMFAO! Read some history books NO, please!

Early Christianity generally is taken to mean before the Nicene council. You will most likely not be able to find one source that says anything about Christians killing people unless if you count the made up lies, like Christians eating babies.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Early Christianity generally is taken to mean before the Nicene council. You will most likely not be able to find one source that says anything about Christians killing people unless if you count the made up lies, like Christians eating babies.

*************
M*W: Yum, yum, those christian babies taste soooo good!

 

[ddovala]

LoL, if you change "hypocrisy" in all of PM's posts to "flamingo" it actually sounds kind of funny.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Or do like the dumb americans did by changing the French fries into Freedom Fires !!