Christian are immune to sin!

[one_raven]

Jenyar how did we become conscious of sin through the law?

By reading it.
What it is saying (as far as I interpret it) is that the law is now stated and written (in the Bible) so we all know what it is.
Simply and blindly following this law, does not make you a righteous man, but knowing the law not only affords you the ability to become a righteous man, but removes the excuse of ignorance.
When you face God, you can not claim ignorance of the law, since it was written for all to read, however obedience alone is not enough to make you righteous, that comes from what you believe.

 

[§outh§tar]

By reading it.
What it is saying (as far as I interpret it) is that the law is now stated and written (in the Bible) so we all know what it is.
Simply and blindly following this law, does not make you a righteous man, but knowing the law not only affords you the ability to become a righteous man, but removes the excuse of ignorance.
When you face God, you can not claim ignorance of the law, since it was written for all to read, however obedience alone is not enough to make you righteous, that comes from what you believe.

Soo... it is better to NOT read and therefore to be safe.

Better safe than sorry; prevention is better than cure.

Also if "blindly" following the law does not make me a righteous man then what is the point of it?

 

[one_raven]

Also if "blindly" following the law does not make me a righteous man then what is the point of it?

I think Jesus' intention (if there actually WAS one or not) was the enlightenment of the people.
Teaching people what he feels is the secret to happiness and eternal life.
That, it seems, comes about not by practice, obligation and rote behavior, rather by by understanding what he had to say and believing in it.

 

[§outh§tar]

I think Jesus' intention (if there actually WAS one or not) was the enlightenment of the people.
Teaching people what he feels is the secret to happiness and eternal life.
That, it seems, comes about not by practice, obligation and rote behavior, rather by by understanding what he had to say and believing in it.

What do I have to do to believe in it? (This is an open question to any Christian)

 

[one_raven]

What do I have to do to believe in it? (This is an open question to any Christian)

Can a non-Christian answer too?

To get a pretty thorough understanding of what Jesus was trying to teach, I would recommend reading Matthew 5-7 (the Sermon on the mount)...
Matt 5
Matt 6
Matt 7

...and reading the Gospel of Thomas.
Some good info and links to several translations at the bottom of the page

 

[§outh§tar]

Those are just instructions for living, it does not tell me how to believe.

 

[podave]

Well that's the whole point. We arent' supposted to be told how to live. Even Aristole in his Nicomicamian(sp?) Ethics didn't tell us where the means of living life where he just told us they were there. It's up to us to find them and live by them. Don't have too much of a good thing and don't do to much of a bad thing and you'll be alright. I think that one of the best things Jesus did was simplfy the laws. If you look at them there are 2 main themes in the 10 original laws. Half deal with how one ought to deal with God and the other half with mankind. When Jesus was questioned which commandment is the most important(so the story goes) he said the first have no Gods before God and the second one like it love your neighbor as yourself. Those are the two key themes. If you love your neighbor you aren't going to take what is his, or any of that other stuff are you? And if you love God you aren't going to put God second to playing halo 2 are you? That's what the two themes are and i believe if a person follows those two key themes they will reach happiness the highest Good.

 

[one_raven]

Those are just instructions for living, it does not tell me how to believe.

How can anyone tell you how to believe in anything?
Either what he says makes sense to you and you are willing to believe it, or it doesn't and you aren't.
Either you will see him as a wise man and enlightened teacher and have faith in his word, or you won't.
It doesn't get much simpler than that.
If you read what he says (especially the hereticla Gospel of Thomas) it really doesn't sounds a whole lot more like what Buddha taught than what Christian preachers teach and what the RC church turned it into.

 

[Yorda]

Maul little children, pump venom into men and gouge the eyes of fair maidens.

Just what God would do huh?

Yeah, God has to act like an animal when he's in an animal body. That's the right thing to do. It's not wrong for animals to kill, that would be as saying that natural disasters are evil because they kill people. Animals express God on animal level. Humans should also behave like humans, but humans behave like animals and matter: That's wrong!

 

[§outh§tar]

Yeah, God has to act like an animal when he's in an animal body. That's the right thing to do.

Can you first tell me what led you to such a conclusion and why "that's the right thing to do"?

It's not wrong for animals to kill, that would be as saying that natural disasters are evil because they kill people.

Why is it wrong for humans to kill then? Avoid the great cop-out of a double standard if you can.

Animals express God on animal level. Humans should also behave like humans, but humans behave like animals and matter: That's wrong!

Please tell me how you reached the conclusion that "animals express God on animal level."

Pleonasm.

 

[Yorda]

Can you first tell me what led you to such a conclusion and why "that's the right thing to do"?

I've seen it. If "animals" wouldn't have permission to kill, the world could not function. But they could not be called animals then, but humans. That's like taking away a natural law, like the law that creates earthquakes. Animals are under control of natural laws since they're not conscious of themselves. Would you ever call a thornado or an animal a sinner? Thornados can't be compared with humans because they are not humans, and animals are not humans either. Otherwise they would behave like humans. It's only a shame that humans don't behave as humans, but rather as thornados and animals.

Why is it wrong for humans to kill then? Avoid the great cop-out of a double standard if you can.

Why!? Humans know more than animals and they are conscious of their actions. It is possible for every human to know what the right thing is. No human will without hesitation kill other humans, because it is wrong for humans to kill, they feel it, but they go against it.

Please tell me how you reached the conclusion that "animals express God on animal level."

God is omnipresent and thus he exists in everything, also in animals. Animals are not able to break against the laws more than plants or matter. Humans have a more advanced brain than animals and thus they became conscious of "themselves" and now they think that they themselves are God, and actually "they" are, if they only would follow the laws.

 

[one_raven]

I'll just wait for Dr Lou to attack this one...

Saves me some effort and redundancy.

 

[terpinator72]

I often hear Christians claim that because they believe in Jesus, their past and future sins have been or will be erased. This doesn't wash with me because of the following reasons:-

1. What's the point of the 10 commandments, if sin is easily wiped away by believing in Jesus?

Galatians chapter 3

2. Why refrain from sin at all if you are, in effect, immune from sin?

galatians chapter 3

3. If Jesus can erase sin, why do it only for those who claim to believe in him? Isn't that a devoid of compassion? I mean, if you had the ability to clear sin, then why not use it for everyone rather than making them exclaim their belief in you first? A little petty isn't it?

Not really... Considering Jesus erased the first covenant, hebrews ch 8, 11.

4. When judgement arrives, after life, would it be fair for people to be judged in the manner: Person x believs in Jesus, so you're going to heaven. Person Y didn't believe in Jesus, so sorry mate, despite your compassionate and truthful life, you're not gonna get in.

Trully no hell exists.. God is almight, knowing everyones innerself completely. Since the Christain God is a jealous God, (exodus 20) therefore he/it is keen with emotion.. Being keen with emotion would also lead one to believe that God would also rate high in levels of compassion, and mercy.. Therefore, unless one is truly evil (I wont attempt to define that, I cannot), everyone is accepted into immortality, or in my opinion cease to exist.. Hell doestn exist, but perpetual nothingness does.

5. Life isn't much of a challenge if all you effectively have to do is believe in Jesus.

Life isnt a necessary a challenge or a test, and the meaning of life is unknown.. I would argue Job was written by the church to rationally explain why some bad things happen to good people.>> Certaintly, God wouldnt feel any contention to have to prove someone's holiness to anyone not to mention satan.

6. What about people before Jesus? How did people get rid of sin previously? Have billions of people prior to Jesus always been going to hell?

see the first covenant, created with Moses... IE Deuteronomy..

7. Is it just humans that can believe in Jesus, or do loyal animals etc count too?

Interesting question.. Up for individual interpretation... See John chapter 10, v 22 and on for that question.. I would argue yes, but I dont know on this matter





1. Galatians chapter 3

2.

galatians chapter 3

3.

Not really... Considering Jesus erased the first covenant, hebrews ch 8, 11.

4.

Trully no hell exists.. God is almight, knowing everyones innerself completely. Since the Christain God is a jealous God, (exodus 20) therefore he/it is keen with emotion.. Being keen with emotion would also lead one to believe that God would also rate high in levels of compassion, and mercy.. Therefore, unless one is truly evil (I wont attempt to define that, I cannot), everyone is accepted into immortality, or in my opinion cease to exist.. Hell doestn exist, but perpetual nothingness does.

5. Life isnt a necessary a challenge or a test, and the meaning of life is unknown.. I would argue Job was written by the church to rationally explain why some bad things happen to good people.>> Certaintly, God wouldnt feel any contention to have to prove someone's holiness to anyone not to mention satan.

6. see the first covenant, created with Moses... IE Deuteronomy..

7.
Interesting question.. Up for individual interpretation... See John chapter 10, v 22 and on for that question.. I would argue yes, but I dont know on this matter



----A

 

[Blindman]

The only souls that are truly free of sin are the atheists.

Of course atheists also belive that all are incapable of sin.

 

[terpinator72]

That is SOOOOOO wrong. Just because they dont believe in God doesnt mean they arent goverened by HIS nature, and rules governing the universe..


They might forsay not worry about sin, but they certainly follow many of the covenant's commandments pre jesus, as they are societal commands today.

But they also, if God is a interferring God, are subject to punishment from God... In the form of job layoffs, bad marriages, etc etc..

This cannot be proven, but to say theyre souls are free from sin is completely wrong... They might think they are... But theyre wrong..

Christains are eliminated from sin by believing in Jesus, Galatians 3......

Athiests while not believing in Jesus, will be more prone to judgement..

 

[mis-t-highs]

and what judgement will that be, as I dont believe in the existence of a sky daddy.
Or fairys or dragons and unicorns, so should I fear judgement from these non-existent things too.
the covenants were written by man, that's whom I follow.
I have no sin, sin is a religious thing, I have no religion.
also I dont have a soul, that to is a religious thing, I am just me now, and when I die there is no me.

 

[Jenyar]

Soo... it is better to NOT read and therefore to be safe.

Better safe than sorry; prevention is better than cure.

In that case, you might as well argue it's better not to live among people who care whether you know the law or not -- i.e. among outlaws. But that's only if love and peace is not high on your list of desires. (Interesting, isn't it, that we do seem to love "among outlaws", no matter where we live).

You can't live very long without becoming aware that there are laws "written in your heart", and that these deserve more than just a passing acknowledgement. The more serious a law is, the sooner it is written down for all to refer to.

PS. The chapter in question is Romans 7:

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life [i.e. innocence] actually brought death. [i.e. guilt]​