Christian are immune to sin!

[SpicySamosa]

I often hear Christians claim that because they believe in Jesus, their past and future sins have been or will be erased. This doesn't wash with me because of the following reasons:-

1. What's the point of the 10 commandments, if sin is easily wiped away by believing in Jesus?

2. Why refrain from sin at all if you are, in effect, immune from sin?

3. If Jesus can erase sin, why do it only for those who claim to believe in him? Isn't that a devoid of compassion? I mean, if you had the ability to clear sin, then why not use it for everyone rather than making them exclaim their belief in you first? A little petty isn't it?

4. When judgement arrives, after life, would it be fair for people to be judged in the manner: Person x believs in Jesus, so you're going to heaven. Person Y didn't believe in Jesus, so sorry mate, despite your compassionate and truthful life, you're not gonna get in.

5. Life isn't much of a challenge if all you effectively have to do is believe in Jesus.

6. What about people before Jesus? How did people get rid of sin previously? Have billions of people prior to Jesus always been going to hell?

7. Is it just humans that can believe in Jesus, or do loyal animals etc count too?

Just a few thoughts. Any ideas?

 

[Silas]

I often hear Christians claim that because they believe in Jesus, their past and future sins have been or will be erased. This doesn't wash with me because of the following reasons:-

1. What's the point of the 10 commandments, if sin is easily wiped away by believing in Jesus?

Well, the 10 Commandments are guidelines on how to live a good life, no? I find them acceptable as a basic moral/behavioural code regardless of beliefs - Honour your parents, don't kill, don't steal, don't screw around, don't covet. And anyway, if you don't know what sin is how can you repent it? You need to know what it is you're doing wrong, so that it can be wiped away.

2. Why refrain from sin at all if you are, in effect, immune from sin?

How do you think the Catholic Church got so big? However, the way it works is that they promise you salvation if you repent, but then they saddle you with ginormous amounts of guilt if you so much as think of sinning. It's a two-way street - nobody believes in Christianity for the sole purpose of committing whatever sins they want.

3. If Jesus can erase sin, why do it only for those who claim to believe in him? Isn't that a devoid of compassion? I mean, if you had the ability to clear sin, then why not use it for everyone rather than making them exclaim their belief in you first? A little petty isn't it?

Yes, but there's a matter of worthiness isn't there? Jesus was in effect setting up a club, and there's no point in doing that if you're going to let everybody in, is there?

4. When judgement arrives, after life, would it be fair for people to be judged in the manner: Person x believs in Jesus, so you're going to heaven. Person Y didn't believe in Jesus, so sorry mate, despite your compassionate and truthful life, you're not gonna get in.

So who said that the afterlife was fair? Rules are rules!

5. Life isn't much of a challenge if all you effectively have to do is believe in Jesus.

How much of a challenge is it if you don't actually believe in anything? I don't think that's much of an anti-Christian or anti-Religion argument. I personally try to live a reasonably moral life despite the fact that I expect no reward or punishment after I die. (No, I don't believe in karma, either).

6. What about people before Jesus? How did people get rid of sin previously? Have billions of people prior to Jesus always been going to hell?

Maybe not actual hellfire - after all, as Paul points out "the wages of sin is death." It's death (ie the total cessation of being) that you're really being threatened with.

7. Is it just humans that can believe in Jesus, or do loyal animals etc count too?

Just a few thoughts. Any ideas?

Animals show us the way - they have no conception of life after death, and yet they can live fulfilled, love-giving lives.

 

[battig1370]

"Christian are immune to sin!"

SpicySamosa: "I often hear Christians claim that because they believe in Jesus, their past and future sins have been or will be erased."

Battig1370: NO! Not according to The Testimony of Jesus, YES! According to the testimony of Saul/St.Paul.

ROMAN 7:14-20 +24-25 --- Saul/St.Paul said, There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in his Christ Jesus.

"We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh, I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. --- Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? --- So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."

But John, the beloved disciple of JESUS says, "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. A you know that HE was manifested to take away our sins, and in HIM there there is no sin. Whoever abides in HIM does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen HIM nor know HIM. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. --- Whoever has been born ofd GOD does not sinb, --- and he cannot sin, --- Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of GOD ---" -(John 3:4-9)

Peace be with you, Paul

 

[Medicine*Woman]

SpicySamosa: I often hear Christians claim that because they believe in Jesus, their past and future sins have been or will be erased. This doesn't wash with me because of the following reasons:-
*************
M*W: Welcome to the wonderful and crazy world of sciforums religion. Believing in Jesus to attain some kind of afterlife salvation is a farce.
*************
SpicySamosa: 1. What's the point of the 10 commandments, if sin is easily wiped away by believing in Jesus?
*************
M*W: 1. The Ten Commandments were allegedly written by Moses on the Sinai during the alleged Exodus. He wrote them so he could control the Egyptian nomads under his leadership. Since Moses never made it to the Promised Land, apparently one of the Egyptians brought it over and it became part of the Torah that Moses allegedly wrote in the desert.
*************
SpicySamosa: 2. Why refrain from sin at all if you are, in effect, immune from sin?
*************
M*W: The whole idea of 'sin' is just a metaphor established by those, like Moses, who wanted to control the masses. What a 'sin' is to one person, it isn't to another -- like eating pork or working on the Sabbath.
*************
SpicySamosa: 3. If Jesus can erase sin, why do it only for those who claim to believe in him? Isn't that a devoid of compassion? I mean, if you had the ability to clear sin, then why not use it for everyone rather than making them exclaim their belief in you first? A little petty isn't it?
*************
M*W: Yes, this is where christians gloat that they are the only true religion. Jesus was not the messiah Paul wrote about. Jesus didn't die on the cross. Jesus wasn't resurrected. Jesus didn't wash away anyone's sin. Christianity lies.
*************
SpicySamosa: 4. When judgement arrives, after life, would it be fair for people to be judged in the manner: Person x believs in Jesus, so you're going to heaven. Person Y didn't believe in Jesus, so sorry mate, despite your compassionate and truthful life, you're not gonna get in.
*************
M*W: There will be no 'judgment.' That, too, has evolved from christianity to control the masses. Dead is dead.
*************
SpicySamosa: 5. Life isn't much of a challenge if all you effectively have to do is believe in Jesus.
*************
M*W: Not only is life no challenge, there is no god, only man. It was man who created the idea of god to explain what they couldn't understand. The only challenge we have is to learn to survive in this world.
*************
SpicySamosa: 6. What about people before Jesus? How did people get rid of sin previously? Have billions of people prior to Jesus always been going to hell?
*************
M*W: There is no hell. Again, christianity created the idea of hell to control the masses.
*************
SpicySamosa: 7. Is it just humans that can believe in Jesus, or do loyal animals etc count too?
*************
M*W: Animals are not as stupid as humans. Animals don't believe in Jesus. Like humans, the only challenge animals have is to survive in this world.

 

[SpicySamosa]

Hey Medicine Woman,

Thanks for your welcome!

I disagree with you when you say that there is no God. Also, Christianity isn't all as bad as you make out - it just isn't perfect.

Regards!

 

[Adstar]

I often hear Christians claim that because they believe in Jesus, their past and future sins have been or will be erased. This doesn't wash with me because of the following reasons:-

1. What's the point of the 10 commandments, if sin is easily wiped away by believing in Jesus?

The 10 commandments show us that we are sinners, therefore it motivates those who cannot live perfect lives to embrace salvation through Jesus.

2. Why refrain from sin at all if you are, in effect, immune from sin?

People who believe in the ten commandments try to do their best to follow them because they love them and acknowledge that they are good in their minds. We refrain from sin because we love what is good and hate what is bad not because it is some rule that we disagree with. If you follow the 10 commandments while disagreeing with them what’s the point sin is still in your mind and rebellion is still in your soul.

3. If Jesus can erase sin, why do it only for those who claim to believe in him? Isn't that a devoid of compassion? I mean, if you had the ability to clear sin, then why not use it for everyone rather than making them exclaim their belief in you first? A little petty isn't it?

The fact that God has had compassion on sinners who are repentant through the work of the Messiah Jesus shows He is both just and merciful. Salvation through Jesus is a gift all that is needed is acceptance and in that acceptance is salvation for sinners.

4. When judgement arrives, after life, would it be fair for people to be judged in the manner: Person x believs in Jesus, so you're going to heaven. Person Y didn't believe in Jesus, so sorry mate, despite your compassionate and truthful life, you're not gonna get in.

Is heaven fair by human logic No. Is the eternal lake of fire fair by human logic No. but what is, is. And no one lives a truthful life, no one is good. When people come to realize this Gods offer of salvation through Jesus is beautiful.

5. Life isn't much of a challenge if all you effectively have to do is believe in Jesus.

Well in a way you are correct

Matthew 11
28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

6. What about people before Jesus? How did people get rid of sin previously? Have billions of people prior to Jesus always been going to hell?

Before Jesus the jews absolved sins through the sacrifice made by the chief priest in the temple in Jerusalem. As for others i cannot say for sure what there final destination will be.

7. Is it just humans that can believe in Jesus, or do loyal animals etc count too?

There will be animals in eternity. i do not know how they will come to be there but they will be there.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[Yorda]

SpicySamosa,

1. What's the point of the 10 commandments, if sin is easily wiped away by believing in Jesus?

To be forgiven by Jesus is the same as to forgive oneself. Usually it includes much pain until we can forgive ourselves, so it's not easy.
Also, "If you do not forgive people, they are not forgiven."

3. If Jesus can erase sin, why do it only for those who claim to believe in him?

Jesus doesn't erase the sins of those who claim to believe in him, but only for those who really believe in him.
Everyone is able to forgive themselves, also those who call themselves atheists.

4. When judgement arrives, after life, would it be fair for people to be judged in the manner: Person x believs in Jesus, so you're going to heaven. Person Y didn't believe in Jesus, so sorry mate, despite your compassionate and truthful life, you're not gonna get in.

If one believes in Christ, he also believes what he taught us: 'Be good, and don't hurt anyone.'
Anyone who does that, already believes in Jesus, whatever he calls himself.

6. What about people before Jesus? How did people get rid of sin previously? Have billions of people prior to Jesus always been going to hell?

Jesus is the same as God, so he has always existed. God came to earth in a human form and was called Jesus. God has always existed, so people could forgive themselves even before. My brother said that if one man goes to hell, then heaven is useless. But it's an illusion to think us as separate from each other, we are all one and the same "me". Jesus was self-awakened. Since God is omnipresent, he is also inside the "center" (self) of every human being.

7. Is it just humans that can believe in Jesus, or do loyal animals etc count too?

Animals can't sin. God takes care of them because they're not aware of themselves.
Animals always do what God would do if he was in an animal body.
-
Have a good day/night.

 

[Joeman]

1. What's the point of the 10 commandments, if sin is easily wiped away by believing in Jesus?

The 10 commandments was plagiarized from ancient pharaonic confessions scroll number 125 in the Egyption book of the dead.

"I did not kill" becomes "thou shalt not kill".
"I did not committ adultry" becomes "thou shalt no committ adultry"
"I did not steal becomes "thou shalt not steal"
"I did not lie" becoms "thou shalt no lie"

and etc....

2. Why refrain from sin at all if you are, in effect, immune from sin?

Sin is simply survival instinct passed down from pre-historic humans. for example, instinct for self preservation becomes selfishness, and instinct to reproduce becomes lust. Without survival instinct or "sin", homo sapiens would have gone extinct. Our sinful nature is not a curse but a bless.

3. If Jesus can erase sin, why do it only for those who claim to believe in him? Isn't that a devoid of compassion? I mean, if you had the ability to clear sin, then why not use it for everyone rather than making them exclaim their belief in you first? A little petty isn't it?

First you have to determine if Jesus is God or is even real. You should look at both sides of the argument and make a decision. If Jesus is not real, then this question is completely pointless. It is like asking what the edge of the earth looks like. It's pointless because the earth doesn't have edges. The earth is round, not flat like the bible says.

4. When judgement arrives, after life, would it be fair for people to be judged in the manner: Person x believs in Jesus, so you're going to heaven. Person Y didn't believe in Jesus, so sorry mate, despite your compassionate and truthful life, you're not gonna get in.

It would be. Belief is very important because most of your actions will be based on your belief. If your belief is false, you may want to do good but you are still an immoral and vile human being. For example, if you are a Christian, the most noble thing to do is to become a missionary and spread the gospel. However, in the eye of an atheist, the missionaries are the biggest culture destroyers in the world, and the best Christian missionary is probably a dead missionary. If Christian God does exist, we can be all screwed. If God is not Christian God, Christians can be really screwed.

5. Life isn't much of a challenge if all you effectively have to do is believe in Jesus.

For most people with half a brain, it is extremely challenging to keep believing in Jesus.

6. What about people before Jesus? How did people get rid of sin previously? Have billions of people prior to Jesus always been going to hell?

According to Christian concept of original sin, God gives everyone this curse of original sin all because of what Adam did. God doesn't want to live with sinners, and therefore all humanity goes to hell by default, except those chosen few who are saved.

7. Is it just humans that can believe in Jesus, or do loyal animals etc count too?

Just a few thoughts. Any ideas?

The purpose of animals is to get eaten. If there are animals in heavy too, they get eaten there too.

 

[one_raven]

People talk about it like it a contract of some sort.
"OK. Sign on this line that says, 'I attest that I believe Jesus is my personal Lord and Savior'. Now, just tell Pete that you are on my guest list and he'll let you past the velvet rope, okay?"

Try being a little less stringent and analytical.
(keeping in mind that the Ten Commandments and Leviticus were in the Old Testament)
When Jesus said
If you believe in me you will go to Heaven
What that sounds like to me is:
If you beleive in my teachings and interpretation of the Tanakh (the Old Testament) and live your life by these simple ideals you will have ever-lasting life and happiness in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Simply-
Jesus believed he had the secret to enlightenment, and was attempting to outline that for his followers.
So, if you abide by the rules he put forth, you will attain enlightenment and have eternal happiness.
One of those rules it to ask forgiveness when you slip on a rule.
This speaks of compassion. He understood that no human was perfect, and people will make mistakes. What is important is not whether or not you make mistakes, but whether or not you understand what you did was wrong, why it was wrong and feel genuine contrition for your failures.
What is important is to try and live by his rules, not to be perfect.
It has nothing to do with insisting that you believe that he is a God-man, or has a position of some importance ar holds sway with Saint Peter.
It has everything to do with what he taught.

I think the problem with most people's interpretation of Jesus' teachings is thinking he was referring to himself as a God or savior when he was actually referring to his words or teachings.

What I took him as saying was that if you sin and are contrite, you are forgiven.
If you sin and are callous, you are not forgiven, because you truly don't want to BE forgiven. If you ask for forgiveness and do not actually believe that what you did was wrong, or do not care that it was wrong, then you are being insincere, and have not learned the error of your ways.

Or maybe that just makes sense to me because I'm NOT a Christian and am imbuing Eastern ideal sinto what I have read of Jesus' teachings.

 

[Jenyar]

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.​

Also, read verse 21 onwards. It should answer most of your questions.

 

[podave]

I don't believe Christians are immune from sin, not anymore than everyone else is. It's not that Christians don't commit them God knows they do and quite often but what christians believe is that Christ(God for those that believe in a trinity) died so that all of mankind's sins could be washed away. But some Christians like to think this washing of sins is a special club type thing those are the ones know by most as hypocrits, I'm not one of those kinds of Christians, am i saying my never hypocritical of course not it's human nature to be hypocritical what i'm saying is I believe Christ/God whatever name one wants to use death was the washing away of all sins of all people even those that don't believe Jesus existed, or that he died for them, or that he was God in the flesh or any of other things you have to believe to be in the club. We are all in the club even those that don't think they are, or don't want to be.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

podave: I don't believe Christians are immune from sin, not anymore than everyone else is. It's not that Christians don't commit them God knows they do and quite often but what christians believe is that Christ(God for those that believe in a trinity) died so that all of mankind's sins could be washed away. But some Christians like to think this washing of sins is a special club type thing those are the ones know by most as hypocrits, I'm not one of those kinds of Christians, am i saying my never hypocritical of course not it's human nature to be hypocritical what i'm saying is I believe Christ/God whatever name one wants to use death was the washing away of all sins of all people even those that don't believe Jesus existed, or that he died for them, or that he was God in the flesh or any of other things you have to believe to be in the club. We are all in the club even those that don't think they are, or don't want to be.
*************
M*W: Well, I'm not in that club, but if Jesus wipes your sins away, I would urge him to focus on your piss-poor English grammar and punctuation.

 

[Raithere]

Quite clearly, this is the interpretation of some Christians.

Some of my favorite religious quotations are in this vein:

"God does not work salvation for fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin vigorously.... Do not for a moment imagine that this life is the abiding place of justice; sin must be committed." - Martin Luther

"Sin cannot tear you away from him [Christ], even though you commit adultery a hundred times a day and commit as many murders." - Martin Luther

~Raithere

 

[podave]

"M*W: Well, I'm not in that club, but if Jesus wipes your sins away, I would urge him to focus on your piss-poor English grammar and punctuation. "
*****************
Awesome! I've already found the grammer Nazi.=P Btw, wouldn't punctuation be part of grammer to begin with? I mean the last time i checked they tought that stuff from the same book. Way to be redundent.=O

 

[Adstar]

Quite clearly, this is the interpretation of some Christians.

Some of my favorite religious quotations are in this vein:

"God does not work salvation for fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin vigorously.... Do not for a moment imagine that this life is the abiding place of justice; sin must be committed." - Martin Luther

"Sin cannot tear you away from him [Christ], even though you commit adultery a hundred times a day and commit as many murders." - Martin Luther

~Raithere

As far as i know there is no Book of martin luther in the bible. So tell me what’s the point of quoting him as if he was?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[one_raven]

As far as i know there is no Book of martin luther in the bible. So tell me what’s the point of quoting him as if he was?

Because he said...

Quite clearly, this is the interpretation of some Christians.

Which simply and directly related to the subject of the discussion.

The thread started with SpicySamosa saying, "I often hear Christians claim..."

So, obviously it is about Christian claims and Christian interpretation of the Bible.

Why would quotes from one of the most prominent and well-known Christians in history regarding his own interpretation of The Word not be applicable?

 

[§outh§tar]

As far as i know there is no Book of martin luther in the bible. So tell me what’s the point of quoting him as if he was?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Absurdity..

As far as I know, we don't know that any of the supernatural claims in the Bible are true. So what's the point of baselessly assuming they are?

 

[§outh§tar]

Animals can't sin. God takes care of them because they're not aware of themselves.
Animals always do what God would do if he was in an animal body.

Maul little children, pump venom into men and gouge the eyes of fair maidens.

Just what God would do huh?

 

[§outh§tar]

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.​

Also, read verse 21 onwards. It should answer most of your questions.

Jenyar how did we become conscious of sin through the law?

 

[one_raven]

Maul little children, pump venom into men and gouge the eyes of fair maidens.

Just what God would do huh?

Of course!
Haven't you read the Old Testament?