Fair comment..
I am quite happy discussing all views from all perspectives and posting the link was apart of offering a wider discussion.
The problem that I personally see is that the more moderate, contemporary Muslim is (individually) unable to offer the world the strong assurances needed due to the fundamental conflict with the older and more traditional understandings of Islam.
This impotency and apparent vexation is the reason I posted my opinion.
I have many friends who are contemporary Muslim and I feel their discomfort at being unable to "march in protest" to support their particular contemporary view of Islam and denounce the atrocities committed in the name of Islam by extreme traditional elements.
Am I being Islamaphobic in saying so?
Regarding the Declaration of Human Rights, one of the greatest problems of this marvelous charter is that it really needs to be "signed" and agreed to by every one, individually, and not just left to the politicians.
Non-discrimination of human rights starts with the individual's personal philosophy and whilst Governments can encourage it by legislation etc ultimately it comes down to the individual person.
Ask many young people today what the Declaration is and they go "eh?"
IMO we would be better served by having it enshrined in the curricula of all primary schools and placed at all war memorials so that people can acknowledge and remember what we are actually fighting and dying for...
Moderate Muslims have often commented that they are being attacked from both sides. One side, from the extremists and the other side, by the West for not speaking out against extremists. They are the only group, as a whole, that we expect not just the leaders within the religion, but followers to come out and publicly condemn acts by Islamic extremists. We do not have that expectation from anyone else. Certainly, we expect religious leaders to condemn attacks made in their religion's name, but we do not expect members of said religions to take to the streets to protest. The fact that they are, and are in the crowd of those protesting such acts is apparently not enough. We keep demanding more.
I commented in a thread about the Catholic Church in the religion sub-section that that when adherents of that religion and within the leadership itself do or say things that go against its teachings, the leadership goes silent. They don't say boo. But we do not expect them to.
A while ago, I pointed out to another member here, one who is known for his Islamaphobia, that why should moderate Muslims speak out about what someone on the other side of the world to them, different culture, for example, did when they are so busy having to defend themselves for the acts of this unknown, unrelated person on the other side of the world. I'll put it this way, assuming you are Protestant, as an example, and a Protestant in African goes into a village and massacres everyone in it. How would you feel if you were expected to denounce it, because you share the same religion as this person? The thing is, no one would expect you to. To put it into perspective, over 130 children, Muslim children, were massacred in their school less than a month ago. Not a single person complaining about the religion in this thread commented on the religion in the thread about that massacre. Not a one.
There are a few reasons for that. One is that it is unrelated to them.. Two - is they do not care, after all, it's just Muslims killing their own. Thirdly, why should they comment on it, as it does not affect their way of life. But two Muslims attack a Western organisation and they all come scurrying out of the woodwork and declare that it is a war against the West and that all Muslims must denounce it, that moderates must speak out. But not one of them say this in a discussion about over 130 children massacred by Islamic extremists? The same thing happened when Breivik slaughtered so many children on that island in his protest against what he saw as the Islamification of Europe. It was his hatred of Islam and the community of hating Islam which led him down that path. None of the anti-Islam crowd in this thread spoke out against that either, but no one expected them to. Hugh's point is that if we are to blame the religion or blame the whole for the actions of the few in horrific acts such as the latest terror attack in Paris, then we are equally to blame for our role in Islamaphobia which lead people like Breivik to attack and kill Muslims for their religion. One is just as bad as the other.
Where were the thousands standing in solidarity with those Muslim children around the world? Where were the demands that the religion must denounce it, that the moderates must take to the street? You won't see it, because the victims were Muslims. Moderates do take to the street to protest. We saw it in droves in Pakistan. It is just never enough, because our own prejudice demands that it cannot be enough.
When right wing white supremacist Christians bombed buildings and olympic venues in the US for their religious ideology, no one expected Christian moderates to speak out against it and explain why it didn't reflect their religious belief. That expectation was not there. There was certainly no expectation that Christians in Europe take to the street to denounce what happened in the US, so why do we expect Muslims to take to the street to protest around the world? That expectation stems from our own bigotry. Hence why Hugh says that we are prevented by our own bigotry to see what the problem is with blaming the whole. Christians, as a group, know the difference between the bad and the good. So do Muslims. But we do not accept that for Muslims.
The reality is that the people most in danger of Islamists, of the religious fundamentals within Islam, are Muslims. Our losses to Islamic terror pale in comparison to what they have suffered and continue to suffer.
Thousands of moderates have been massacred for not swearing allegiance to the extremists, from Imams to ordinary citizens. And yet this isn't proof enough that all Muslims do not share the same ideology?
Are there problems in Islam? Of course there are. Does it stem from their religious text? I think it depends on people taking the religious text and twisting it to suit their own needs and focusing on parts of the text that they feel justifies their actions. We can say the same for Christian sects who use the Bible to justify promoting and encouraging people to murder homosexuals. The Islamic protests in the past against the Mohammed cartoons are exactly the same as the Christian pro-lifers who protest, threaten and even kill abortion providers in the US. It is the same sick and twisted understanding of their religious text that leads to that sort of violence. It is fed by the same moronic and stupid adherence to religious ideology that cares naught for morality or for their deity of choice and solely about ones own beliefs and trying to foist personal beliefs on others, even if it means killing to achieve it. One does not have to be a Muslim to suffer from that level of hatred. Should moderates speak out? Should they act to curb the draw of Islamists? As much as Christians are expected to do the same. They do speak out, and they are dying for it. Perhaps we should start listening instead of blaming them. Because how can they tell the younger generations, who are the ones who are becoming radicals and who are drawn to fight in Syria and who are drawn to Islamic extremists to fight what they see as a war against their religion by Islamaphobes and the "evil West", that they should not fight, when they are also busy having to fight for their religion against said Islamaphobes? It becomes an evil and never ending cycle. The West and Western ideology can help by not excluding and isolating Muslims for being Muslims. By decreasing the draw of the extremists. And this is something that moderate Muslims will have to fight in their own homes. And it isn't going to be an easy battle. Especially when their own religion is coming under attack by extremists and 'the west'.
Hugh's point was brilliant. If we blame the religion or the whole for acts of Islamic terrorism, then we are all equally to blame
when Islamaphobia leads to attacks on Muslims.
