Can you explain

[Cris]

Sufi,

Can you explain that "knowing what to believe" is NOT "having actual belief in what we know to believe" ?

I think what you really mean is that even if we know that something is true then that does not mean we have to believe it to be true. But why not?

 

[Sufi]

((Sufi)))...what i think you ask is---that if you 'know' 'Oneness', then is that knowing the actual EXPERIENCE of Oneness.......is that what you mean?
........
We are a continuum. there will be ecstatic states where we deeply feel this interelation, but to want that state ALL the time is sefl-defeating, beCAUSE we are a continuum of ever changing experience, as is all of Nature...

Yes, to the first question.

However, if you mean that there will be a different EXPERIENCE from what we experience now after we know oneness, then NO.

Oneness is oneness in and for itself, regardless of whether we are aware of it or not!

Yet, the problem is if we are applying our knowledge of oneness (that defies our logic and laws) to our understanding, thoughts, actions, etc as a believer of oneness!

Probably NOT, because we are normally not aware of the conclusions and effects of believing in the oneness. We might have not evolved well enough into thinking about it seriously yet

 

[Sufi]

Sufi,

I think what you really mean is that even if we know that something is true then that does not mean we have to believe it to be true. But why not?

I mean, there is a difference between having the knowledge about what to believe, and applying to our understanding, thoughts and actions this belief that we had the knowledge of.

For instance, some say they believe God is omnipresent, present in everywhere. But as to apply their belief to their life, they consider nothing different as they do not reform their perspective in accordeance with their knowledge about what to believe. They keep thinking and acting as they were conditioned to think and act before they had all this knowledge. They do not think tha same way as they say they believe. They live as if god is present nowhere, though they say they believe god is everywhere.

This, I consider, is having a knowledge about what to believe but having a lack of belief in what they have the knowlegde of.

So, having the knowledge of something does not necessariy result in having the belief of that thing.

And maybe you or others have better explanations of this state?

 

[Sufi]

* Some people believe in the multiple universes.

The key word there is "believe" so in essense some people "beliefs" of multiple universes are not warranted by evidence, I can "believe" in purple unicorns on the other side of Mars, you may or may not believe in those purple unicors, you will ask for evidence, I assert that I just "believe" that there is!. Without evidence, I have "faith" that purple unicors exist on the other side of Mars, and since no one can refute my assumptions I believe that purple unicorns are in fact on the other side of Mars.

Godless.

the above explanation imported from another tread gives a good idea about what we usually understand of "believing"

However, you cannot believe in the oneness in the same way as you believe in a god defined above.

If you believe in the oneness, you must no more believe in what your eyes allow you perceive in a narrow range... You need to allow what defies your logic and physical perception...