Then why are you so hard on them? Why so hard on Constantine? Even if he was using the Church and betraying Jesus as you say, all we can tell from the external evidence was that he wanted people to be free to worship God. His edict of Nantes allowed freedom of worship in the Roman Empire. If you were president of the united states, and 80% of the population were christians and wanted your help in estamblishing a christian society, wouldnt you do the same? Or would you turn your back on them and continue to allow legalized abortion, stem cell research, etc.?Adstar said:
Can "make your own faith" survive?
- Thread starter Lawdog
- Start date
Key word ALONE. Surely you will need to adress this problem in your theology.Adstar said:
What sort of cruel God would allow for such a trap? Your version of christianity seems more to me like GNOSTICISM, in which you must have the powers of knowledge to see throuigh the illusions of the world. The body is evil, the soul trapped in an evil world, is good. A false god (the Pope) rules over the spirits of the decieved. Only those elect with the gift of Secret Knowledge of Jesus' real teachings can escape. Its Gnosticism.
yes, narrow gate: ie. the Church. The broad path are those who refuse to adhere to the Church's difficult teachings.
So, the size of the Church is important? This also indicates that you worship a contrived version of Jesus, an Idol. You despair of the Charity of God by asserting that God would allow his true church to be small and unknown so that only a few people would recognize it.
Protestants have the same record. So thats no argument.
So he made a mistake. He probably was on medication that morning. Big deal.
This is an absurd history. First off, the reason that the bibles were chained to the Churches is because they were so expensive, as well as being considered holy. They were also fragile. You cant just let a peasant run off with it for reading while he milks the goats. The reason we did not want it to be read in the vernacular is precisely for this reason: That people would distort the Word of God which they have done. The mysterious word of God is best left to professionals to interpret, no upstart religious zealots. With Luther's translation into vernacular German many heresies arose, like Calvanism, one of the most violent and repressive forms of Christianity the world has ever known.
Lawdog said:
*************
M*W: Since when did peasants know how to read? The printing press wasn't invented until the 1500s. That's only a measly 500 years ago! Peasants weren't the educated class. They were probably chained to the churches because they were individually hand copied and, therefore, hard to come by.
Just because it has lasted for a long time doesn't mean that orthodox faith didn't make it's own faith in the beginning, too.
Actually, the oneness began with the founding of the church in Rome. Before that, there were many sects.
Then it makes no difference. Early Christianity, by any name, was more varied than modern Christians like to admit.
Not more varied, just simpler. The Faith was too young to have broken up into many sects. It would never have survived if schisms were occuring in small communities. They all believed the same. As time went on and the Church grew, Satan's wolves disguised themselves as sheep and entered the fold with heresies. The Church had to make a stand against these. So sometime in the early first centuries they designed the Apostle's Creed, so that anyone who confessed that creed would be included among the faithful. Orthodoxy of creed followed in response to heresy.[/QUOTE]
Lawdog said:
Lawdog
Can you not see. politicians of all ages have used people like you. constantine wanted power lawdog and was willing to do whatever it took to get it. It is interesting that you mention a modern equivalent. Look at George bush and sections of the religious support movement who have got into bed with him.
Here we have a supposed strong Christian leader with strong christian convictions??? but look at the USA for all the bluster and the empty words. Abortion is still a big business in the USA stem cell research is still allowed. It is only federal funding that is being vetoed private medical organisation can still source their own funding and murder babies for experiamentation. Just as joseph mangler did to the little ones in the concentration camps. America is a decadent nation that exports hours of filth filled programs all over the world.
Why are sections of the "christian" ? community in the USA vainly deluding themselves into believing president bush is their champion?? Because that’s what they want to believe, they want the laws of God to become the laws of the land through getting into bed with the corrupt political worldly powers that be. They think they can make a covenant with death when all that is happening is that they are being used. History always repeats Lawdog.
What is happening in the USA is just like what happened in the old roman empire. and it will end not in the transformation of the USA into a Christian kingdom but it will end in the compromising and corruption of the churches who have got into bed with the political powers, ( in fact they are already corrupted ) and it will lead to the name of Jesus being hated and cursed over the world. Just as the name of Jesus is mocked and cursed in this room because of the actions of the catholic church and similar false christian organisations down throught the ages Lawdog.
Lawdog come out of her. she is not worthy of your devotion and dedicated survice. Be freed from what binds you and come to the joy of the truth. It is far better to serve our Messiah Jesus in Spirit and put an end to vain service of dead churches who are spitting on the name and undermining the message of the Messiah Jesus.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Oh no Lawdog i am not a gnostic. Where the Words of Jesus pertaining to loving our enemies and not resisting an evil person locked up in some secret mystical wrightings? No they where smack bang in the middle of the Gospels in the Sermon on the mount for all followers of the Messiah Jesus to read and believe.
God allows men to rebel against His will. God allows men to choose death, to embrace the unrighteousness they deem as good. Just as He allows men to give up their pride and meekly accept His loving gospel, the most pure and beautiful love letter ever sent.
Read the Words of God
2 Thessalonians 2
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Yes God does allow people to be deceived because they reject the Love of the Truth, they reject the message of the Gospel, the Words of Jesus. A message that is not locked up in some hard to understand mystical wrighting but is clear and simple that even a child can understand.
Go back to the basics Lawdog, Go back to the Words of Jesus. Get the foundations right and build upon the true cornerstone. The building your now is has a faulty foundation out of alignment with the truth and when the shock arrives it will crumble and fall. Do not be caught up in its destruction Lawdog. Accept the Gospel as a Child and be free.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Who said i was a messenger of protestantism Lawdog.
As i have said before i am no friend of luther nor am i a follower of calvin and his T.U.L.I.P doctrines.
Lawdog please resist the eagre to paint me into some theological/ denominational box that you are only painting me into to assist you in the rejection of the Message i am being used by God to give to you. Many protestants would and have rejected the message that i have given using the same "your one of them" defence mechanism. But it is not a defence mechanism Lawdog it is a snare, a trap.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Lawdog are you being honest? Do you truly believe the pope and his entire entourage simply had a bad day. Or was your reply a desperate grasping at straws out of fear of the truth? Do not fear the truth Lawdog, do not fear the leap of faith, God wants you Lawdog and will not let you fall into the dark abyss but you must trust only in Him and accept His will.
Lawdog the pope did not make a mistake, he worked on many levels to form an alliance with religions all over the world in his ecumenical push. The same program is being persued by benedict. A covenant between false religions to form a united global religion. a vain plan, a heretical desire indeed.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Well, after all, the Pope is human. Do you think he is without error? surely not.
The Pope can only be infallible when speaking ex-cathedra. Even if he did
intenrtionally kiss the Koran, that makes him no heretic, only one who
has made an error in judgement. I did not agree with many of JPII's policies,
but he was my captain and father in Christ so I follow him and not abandon.
Ecumenism has run its course and is exhausted itself. It can go no further.
Now the Church must prepare itself for the onslaught of Antichrist.
This religion is a family. It means commitment and being in communion with people
who you have serious disagreements with.
You used to be a Catholic. With all those bible verses you quoted, why do you not
see how they refer to the faith of our fathers?
I do not think that you can be persuaded to see things my way. I am commited to the Church so I cannot accept a "free style" christianity. Therefore I accept you as my brother in Christ, though separated by theology, and that there must be no more dissension between brothers as this will harm both rather than help.
The Pope can only be infallible when speaking ex-cathedra. Even if he did
intenrtionally kiss the Koran, that makes him no heretic, only one who
has made an error in judgement. I did not agree with many of JPII's policies,
but he was my captain and father in Christ so I follow him and not abandon.
Ecumenism has run its course and is exhausted itself. It can go no further.
Now the Church must prepare itself for the onslaught of Antichrist.
This religion is a family. It means commitment and being in communion with people
who you have serious disagreements with.
You used to be a Catholic. With all those bible verses you quoted, why do you not
see how they refer to the faith of our fathers?
I do not think that you can be persuaded to see things my way. I am commited to the Church so I cannot accept a "free style" christianity. Therefore I accept you as my brother in Christ, though separated by theology, and that there must be no more dissension between brothers as this will harm both rather than help.
I would love to be able to acknowledge you as a Brother in Jesus but i cannot. Your reaction to the Word of God is your responsibility. You cannot simply rely on some human "authority" and hope that it is God inspired. All human authority is corruptible and faulty just as you acknowledge the faultiness of the pope. In making tradition your authority you are relying upon the thoughts of men for your salvation and in that lies your destruction. There is no other Authority then the Word of God and the revealing of that Word through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
May the Spirit convict
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Dear Lawdog,
Good! Let those Protestants have it.
But remember that Catholic Bishops aren't in any degree any better than even your worst Protestants... after all, these Bishops are just as Paulist. Indeed, it has been the Bishops who have set up the Catholic Seminaries so that 3 of the 5 Years are dedicated to the Indoctrination of Paulist Doctrines. Does that ring a Bell? 14 of the 27 Books of the New Testament are from Paul. Paul outnumbers Jesus. Next, the Catholic Establishment institutionalized Paul ahead of Jesus even in its Schools. This is Institutionalized Paulism. Nothing to do with Jesus, has it?
Only the Catholic Religious Orders, the ones Dedicated to Our Lady, offer any True Religious Validity. All the Bishops and the Secular Clergy -- the Parish Priests paid by the Secular Bishops -- they are all the Weeds in the Wheat that Christ spoke of. It was their Corruption that lead to the downfall of Catholic Civilization.
And next door to the Protestants burning in Hell will be the Catholic Bishops and their lacky Priests, burning in Hell.
Those who would Murder Jesus to be Saved, will not be Saved.
It is simply not ethical.
Good! Let those Protestants have it.
But remember that Catholic Bishops aren't in any degree any better than even your worst Protestants... after all, these Bishops are just as Paulist. Indeed, it has been the Bishops who have set up the Catholic Seminaries so that 3 of the 5 Years are dedicated to the Indoctrination of Paulist Doctrines. Does that ring a Bell? 14 of the 27 Books of the New Testament are from Paul. Paul outnumbers Jesus. Next, the Catholic Establishment institutionalized Paul ahead of Jesus even in its Schools. This is Institutionalized Paulism. Nothing to do with Jesus, has it?
Only the Catholic Religious Orders, the ones Dedicated to Our Lady, offer any True Religious Validity. All the Bishops and the Secular Clergy -- the Parish Priests paid by the Secular Bishops -- they are all the Weeds in the Wheat that Christ spoke of. It was their Corruption that lead to the downfall of Catholic Civilization.
And next door to the Protestants burning in Hell will be the Catholic Bishops and their lacky Priests, burning in Hell.
Those who would Murder Jesus to be Saved, will not be Saved.
It is simply not ethical.