can fish feel pain?

[Yorda]

Your autonomic nervous system causes your own body to breathe when you forget to think about it.

my subconscious mind makes me breath. it also beats my heart.

the universe is "programmed" to work that way so the atoms simply follow some fairly simple rules.

if two magnets that attract is a natural law, is it also a natural law when a man and a woman are attracted? thoughts cause this attraction in humans, so i think it's also thoughts (subconscious) that cause magnets to attract.

if consciousness controls us, it controls everything. if we are made of matter, everything is made of matter. if god controls natural laws, he controls us too.

There is no need to postulate a consciousness unless you want to get metaphysical and speculate about the "programming."

i would say the opposite: there is no reason to postulate a natural law

but it's all the same... just different perspectives...

 

[spidergoat]

People say that koi are downright pet-like, once you've had them for a few years.

They can be taught tricks using the same clicker-training techniques they use for cats and dogs.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

my subconscious mind makes me breathe. it also beats my heart.

Absolutely not true. Your autonomic nervous system is controlled by your hindbrain, the ancient animal part of your brain. Your unconscious ("subconscious" is old Freudian terminology) and your conscious mind are in your forebrain, the part whose unique enlargement makes us human by giving us the ability to override our instincts with reason and learning.

if two magnets that attract is a natural law, is it also a natural law when a man and a woman are attracted?

You're getting into semantics here. Electromagnetism is one of the four basic forces in the universe. (The other three are gravity and the strong and weak nuclear forces.) The equations describing the workings of electromagnetism are relatively simple and we call them colloquially "natural laws." The "force" that attracts humans of opposite sexes to each other is a much more complex combination of biochemistry and personality. You could say that biochemistry is derived from natural laws, but it's not a natural law in itself. Personality has a large element of choice in it, so to an extent it is a textbook example of humans consciously using their reasoning and learning to override the natural laws that drive their biochemistry.

Thoughts cause this attraction in humans

As I just pointed out, thoughts are only partially responsible for sexual attraction. Some of it is indeed biochemistry, which is a collection of natural laws at work.

so i think it's also thoughts (subconscious) that cause magnets to attract.

Your reasoning is derailed. Your premises were incorrect so your conclusion is invalid.

if consciousness controls us, it controls everything. if we are made of matter, everything is made of matter. if god controls natural laws, he controls us too.

As already noted, consciousness does not totally control us. Many of the most important things we do that keep us alive are not under conscious control.

 

[Till Eulenspiegel]

They can be taught tricks using the same clicker-training techniques they use for cats and dogs.

That doesn't mean all that much. Planaria can be taught to turn right or left.

 

[Ganymede]

That's why I don't fish. And I come from a family that loves to fish. Boiling a crab alive is extremely cruel.

 

[Yorda]

Your unconscious ("subconscious" is old Freudian terminology)

subconscious is a better word because nothing is really unconscious.

The equations describing the workings of electromagnetism are relatively simple and we call them colloquially "natural laws."

you could also create equations for animal behavior and call them "natural laws", but that doesn't mean they are...

animal behavior isn't as predictable because animal bodies are more complex than rocks and magnets, so consciousness can express itself in greater variety. humans are even more unpredictable/free...

As I just pointed out, thoughts are only partially responsible for sexual attraction. Some of it is indeed biochemistry, which is a collection of natural laws at work.

children have no sexuality... is there a difference in their biochemistry? if the biochemistry becomes different when you become an adult... what causes it to become different?

Many of the most important things we do that keep us alive are not under conscious control.

some people can control their heartbeat consciously. it's just a matter of becoming conscious of your subconscious parts.

 

[pjdude1219]

I can't watch iron chef. It freaks me out. There was one episode where a chef was chopping up an octopus. It kept trying to get away. The individual legs were crawling out of the bowl. I know it was mostly reflexes but eeww!

thats nothing in china they eat live octopi

 

[linscomb]

So - mutilating the crab before you boil it is kind? :bugeye:

 

[linscomb]

Children and sexuality...you need to define what you mean by sexuality. If it is an awareness of sex then children certainly do have sexuality. If you mean the drive to copulate - that's a hormonal switch. The genes aren't different - different genes are "turned on."

" you could also create equations for animal behavior and call them "natural laws", but that doesn't mean they are..."

That was the point that was being made. Natural Laws are separate and distinct from behavior - but can have an affect on said behavior.

At best, any equation you could come up with to describe behavior is going to have to be statistical. "Natural laws" are hard-math based equations that describe events that have been proven to occur invariable when specific conditions exist.

You are still arguing semantics. Get your definitions straight. Remember - each profession has its own jargon (vocabulary used with a specific definition in mind) and you must be able to adhere to the correct definition.

 

[linscomb]

Sorry - getting off the point.

 

[visceral_instinct]

animals kill animals for food, so why shouldn't we? after all, science says that we are animals...

Because unless you're an Inuit, you don't actually need to kill animals for food.

 

[Orleander]

Because unless you're an Inuit, you don't actually need to kill animals for food.

We have a lot of poor people here in MI who live off deer meat. I think they most certainly do need it to survive.

 

[visceral_instinct]

That was my point. No need to be so pedantic. If you actually need to hunt to survive, yes, it is morally acceptable. If you don't, it isn't.