DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Can a preacher be sincere and intelligent and still perform his duties?
- Thread starter Seattle
- Start date
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Generalisations don't work but....
Someone who can con folk out of enough money to buy their third private jet is probably shit house rat intelligent and can seem as sincere as it takes and in his way deliver what ever it is his victims need...everybody wins.
Alex
Someone who can con folk out of enough money to buy their third private jet is probably shit house rat intelligent and can seem as sincere as it takes and in his way deliver what ever it is his victims need...everybody wins.
Alex
I'm not at all sure it takes a lot of intelligence to con people into giving over their money, their time, work, loyalty and autonomy to anyone who claims he can protect and reward them. See current administration of US federal government.
Meanwhile, the majority of priests, vicars, ministers, imams and rabbis live very modest lifestyles and perform their duties with compassion and diligence.
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
I would like to think that is true but I do not think one can make such a claim really...I mean how do you know? I doubt there are any stats ... It may be that your view is formed by what you would like to think is the way of it.
And you mention "their duties" and so I ask ..what are their duties?
Alex
Only anecdotally. But there are stats about legal wrongdoing and there are stats about soup kitchens, hospices, youth outreach programs, homeless shelters, refugee camps and disaster relief operations. You'll probably find fewer clergy than network executives in the docks for sexual misconduct or embezzlement, and more clergy than stock traders among those do-gooders on the front lines.
Each denomination has its own job-description for various ranks of clergy. I'm more familiar with the parish level than higher ranks. The average protestant minister would be expected to deliver at least one, more likely two weekly sermon(s) and conduct regular service, along with at least one, more likely three weekday evening presiding over bible study, choir practice, psychological support groups, scouts, or couples counselling. From time to time, they have to conduct funerals, weddings, confirmations and baptisms - with all the instructions and/or rehearsals before and consoling after. There would be at least two days a week when he or she meets parishioners who need help with personal problems. He or she would go to visit parishioners too ill or feeble to attend church, take part in raising funds for charities and supervise volunteer activities, meet with the trustees to discuss church business, respond to requests for speaking/teaching engagements, and always be prepared to rush to an emergency or deathbed. A Catholic priest would, of course, also have to conduct early morning mass every day and hear confessions.
Several clergymen I have known personally took their duties very seriously and worked as hard as anyone else, only with more irregular hours and intrusions on their personal life.
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exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Yes, often.
My experience is that Catholic priests in the UK frequently describe themselves as like those they are speaking to in the congregation, with just the same pressures and weak spots. Some priests talk as if we are children, but that is usually the poor speakers or those newly ordained and unsure of themselves. The best are those that eschew making dogmatic pronouncements and make suggestions, gently and tentatively, to their flock.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
What are their qualifications for doing so?
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Being ordained priests.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Can they perform surgery as well? (just giving you a hard time).
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Er......
Yeah, well I'd be the first to admit that Catholic priests are a mixed bag, intellectually. I guess I have been lucky in living in relatively well-educated parts of London, in which the bishop realises he needs a parish priest with something inside his skull if people are to take him seriously.
But at least those denominations that have trained priests ought to be better than a lot of these homespun pastors who wake up one day and decide to found a church, with no qualifications at all. (One of my brothers is one of those, by the way. Much as I love him, I have managed to avoid attending any service led by him.
)They are not required to. However, many do learn first aid and palliative care. Very few surgeons are skilled at grief counselling, and none will come to your deathbed in the dead of night in a snowstorm.
the median annual salary for clergy is $45,740.
the average salary of a surgeon was $255,110 per year
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
I wouldn't think a surgeon would be a good grief counselor, a psychologist would though.
I don't see the rest of the population needing grief counselling however except for very rare circumstances. The same applies for marriage counselling...God wants you to stay together, etc.
Does the average person need someone to help them "study" a book as well?
Like, when they're bereaved? Yeah. That's when people turn to their pastors.
And also when they have family problems, conflicts at work, hard decisions to make, etc. All circumstances that are considerably less rare than needing an operation.
If that's how your rabbi handled it, no wonder you're pissed off with all clergy!
I don't know any average people; have no idea what they need.
How many, when, how often, why - whatever!
Religious groups need religious leaders; else, they would all go off somewhere and pray in solitude.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Ah, Ok go off my son and don't buy anything, don't use any resources and pray to God and call me in the morning, praise be to the Lord.
not sure ordination means much, although I will admit that certain sects push for education and training before ordination.
All it takes to become ordained is to have a sect of a religion consecrate the individual and authorise them to do certain deeds. Although the technique and process vary, it's not all that hard.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
I'd be the first to agree the quality of priests is rather uneven, but they do go through several years of training before they are ordained.
The act "(sacrament", in the Catholic church) of ordination is just a ceremony taking a few minutes, but so is a degree ceremony at university.
actually, that is the point - I was speaking pretty broadly: the above are major divisions of the Abrahamic religions, all of the same source with different primary prophets, which then subsequently divide into sub-sects of that major division.
In the US, it really varies and depends a lot on not only the Abrahamic religion division, sub-sect (such as: whatever version of x-tian/muslim you are) but also the specific congregation.
I honestly don't know much about rabbinical training other than the basics.
true that. Methodists tend to require a lot of training too, but Methodists and Catholics are just small groups of x-tian's, comparatively speaking. I was speaking more "overall"... and not just of the Abrahamic faith. You can become ordained in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and in a lot of states, this makes you able to marry, give last rites and more. (I didn't look up anywhere else).