Can a God Suffer?

Jeeves said:
If you accept the Christian context as the only possible one. I don't.
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I grant that. That's not my point.

My point is simply that the OP accepts it. By invoking God in the context of Jesus, he invokes the 'no false gods' before me clause.
 
DaveC426913 said:
I grant that. That's not my point.

My point is simply that the OP accepts it. By invoking God in the context of Jesus, he invokes the 'no false gods' before me clause.
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You assume this - presumably from previous communications by the author. It's not in the present one.
By referring to something in the story of Thor or Shiva, I do not automatically invoke them, nor any laws, commands or clauses they may have given to their peoples.
I only raise a caution against reading into and interpreting other poster's text, because, though I make every effort at verbal clarity, I am a frequent subject of misinterpretation.
(BTW where is the "no false gods before me" clause? Did Jesus say that? I remember the "no other gods but me" clause in the first commandment, which acknowledges the existence of other gods and explicitly forbids their worship, as Jehovah does in several other places in the OT. I don't recall the reference from the NT - or much else, for that matter. I should revisit MML&J --- not #@!&** Paul.)
 
Jeeves said:
You assume this - presumably from previous communications by the author.
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No. The OP states - as a matter of argument, in this thread - that Jesus was nailed to a cross, (and therefore (presumably) a god can suffer).
It doesn't matter what he believes - it matters what the premise of this thread is.
 
DaveC426913 said:
No. The OP states - as a matter of argument, in this thread - that Jesus was nailed to a cross, (and therefore (presumably) a god can suffer).
It doesn't matter what he believes - it matters what the premise of this thread is.
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That Osiris was torn apart by Set and therefore a god can die
is a premise that does not explicitly or implicitly presuppose the falsity of Jehovah or the non-existence of Jesus.

Afaic, all the players in religious and mythic narrative are characters in equally good standing; their stories are all equally valid. We can cite these characters in terms of their own internal reference, without denying the existence of all other narratives.
Keeping in mind that these are the stories of our cultures, not objective truths.
Unless you have a vested interest in one of the stories.
 
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Jeeves said:
That Osiris was torn apart by Set and therefore a god can die
is a premise that does not explicitly or implicitly presuppose the falsity of Jehovah or the non-existence of Jesus.
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Correct. But the corollary does presuppose falsehood.

Osiris is compatible with a plenitude of gods. It is inclusive.
Jesus is not. It excludes all other gods.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Correct. But the corollary does presuppose falsehood.

Osiris is compatible with a plenitude of gods. It is inclusive.
Jesus is not. It excludes all other gods.
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In the world of his cult-followers, yes.
In my world, he's a character in one of many myths.
I do not presume to decide which poster is of which world, unless they express allegiance .
(actually, the Egyptians didn't respect other peoples or their gods, though they didn't go in for persecutions)
 
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The Bible spills over when it comes to suffering, but nothing mentioned about God suffering other than through Jesus.
 
Jeeves said:
There is no "undo" on sin. No expiry date, no statute of limitation.
Crime can be expiated through punishment or restitution in egalitarian human law; in a monarchy, it can be expunged by royal decree (change in the law) or pardon (letting a specific criminal off the prescribed punishment).
Sin can only be forgiven by the god who forbade that act in the first place.
Pleading, bribery, cajolery, self-abasement and self-castigation are the methods whereby such forgiveness is sought.
The sacrifice of a valuable sinless creature - bird, animal, child, young adult, captured enemy or demigod - is one form of divine bribery.
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If Jesus takes sin away may it be my dis-belief?
 
Jeeves said:
In the world of his cult-followers, yes.
In my world, he's a character in one of many myths.
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Yes, but in your world, Jesus did not cause God to suffer through his sacrifice. In your world, that's a myth.

Anyway, I've beaten this to-death, and obviously have not made my point.
 
Jeeves said:
No. Jesus takes away your sin only if you believe on him. Otherwise, tough titties.
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He can forgive dis-belief before he forgives violence. Equanimity will leave dis-belief for naught, but I will remain. Do you believe anything?
 
kx000 said:
He can forgive dis-belief before he forgives violence.
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Where in the bible does it say that either Jehovah or Jesus had any problem with violence?
He can - theoretically - forgive anything. But according to canon, you have to be really, truly, right-down-to-your-marrow sorry enough to kneel on a cold stone floor all night in full armour, and never go to the bathroom.
Equanimity will leave dis-belief for naught, but I will remain.
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I have no idea what that means.
Do you believe anything?
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I believe lots of things. Evolution, climate change, the spookiness of cats, true love, pictures from mars rovers and that spring is actually coming.
 
Jeeves said:
Where in the bible does it say that either Jehovah or Jesus had any problem with violence?
He can - theoretically - forgive anything. But according to canon, you have to be really, truly, right-down-to-your-marrow sorry enough to kneel on a cold stone floor all night in full armour, and never go to the bathroom.

I have no idea what that means.

I believe lots of things. Evolution, climate change, the spookiness of cats, true love, pictures from mars rovers and that spring is actually coming.
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Dis-belief is nothingness, just be passive to it. Hell will burn itself.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Correct. But the corollary does presuppose falsehood.

Osiris is compatible with a plenitude of gods. It is inclusive.
Jesus is not. It excludes all other gods.
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Can you not see that the OP used Jesus as an example of a god suffering? That's all it was, a 7 year old could understand that. Why just jump into a debate arguing about nothing? The OP answered his own question in his post.
 
davewhite04 said:
Can you not see that the OP used Jesus as an example of a god suffering? That's all it was, a 7 year old could understand that. Why just jump into a debate arguing about nothing? The OP answered his own question in his post.
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You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
 
davewhite04 said:
Can you not see that the OP used Jesus as an example of a god suffering?
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Perhaps, but was it the "Human" Jesus that suffered or was it the "God" Jesus that suffered? I've heard repeated times that Jesus was both Human and God, which might suggest that if the Human Jesus suffered, so would the God Jesus. But, that raises a conundrum of a God suffering, or in the case of Jesus, a God dying. So, if the Human Jesus died, did the God Jesus die with him? If so, how the heck did Jesus get resurrected? This would suggest that God is incapable of suffering or dying, at the very least, through the God Jesus.
 
Speaking of suffering:
Epimetheus
It seems that the ancient greeks(hellenes) knew that the liver can regenerate itself.

or?
 
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Goldtop said:
Perhaps, but was it the "Human" Jesus that suffered or was it the "God" Jesus that suffered? I've heard repeated times that Jesus was both Human and God, which might suggest that if the Human Jesus suffered, so would the God Jesus. But, that raises a conundrum of a God suffering, or in the case of Jesus, a God dying. So, if the Human Jesus died, did the God Jesus die with him? If so, how the heck did Jesus get resurrected? This would suggest that God is incapable of suffering or dying, at the very least, through the God Jesus.
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If we use the bible to answer this question, then every single person on the planet is a god so the answer is obvious.

Psalm 82:6
 
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