How would that make you believe any more than you do now?
It can be answered with a return question or two: What would make you believe in the giant invisible all-knowing turnip of planet oogle boogle? If you found an old book, would that instantly make it true?
One more question: What would make you believe any more than you do now in all of the other gods/beings that have been written about, from Zeus to Quetzacotl?
Tell me, how does this statement help your argument in any way?
Would you concur that god is powerful and able enough to come down and tell me, be it in a dream, a vision, or via email as stated earlier? If he can, I'd rather take his excuse over yours.
God while being all powerful, will not force you to believe in Him. This is where free will come into play.
So he just killed my son instead, to remind me I have free will? What about my son's free will to live and grow up on this planet? Again.. there was a problem with sending an email?
Have you any methods by which to debunk their claims?
Many. The only one I really need to point out here, right now is this:
A book, (of which there are many many millions), does not make something true, or even give credence to something as being true. Perhaps you're suggesting that I just start believing in vampires because Anne Rice says so... Well?
The fact remains, you have no position with which to give any credibility whatsoever to this book. The same can be said of every other book, (I don't see you believing in the Hindu god, the Greek gods, the Roman gods, the South American snake Gods, the Aztec sun gods, the minotaur, time machines, or aliens). Why not?
If these people were insane, for lack of a better term, then others would have written so as to debunk them.
That's your return argument? lol. Common "belief" is that Moses wrote the majority of the early books. If it were true, wouldn't we agree that Moses never ever ever ever ever met Adam? Wouldn't we agree that Moses never ever ever ever ever met Noah? And yet, here would be one man, making claims about life several thousand years
before he even existed.
Furthermore, let's for the moment assume Mark Twain was 'insane'. Why would anyone debunk anything he'd written? If it's a story, it is not in a necessary postion to be debunked.
Pot is pretty much freely available today, but does that mean that everyone uses it.
I guess at least, you have the ability to ask them. Yes, that's right... You can walk up to them and say "hey dude, do you smoke pot?" Think you can do that with the ancient people you'll never know? You can't even tell me with anything other than personal assumption as to who these bible writers were..
Most, if not all, of the visions are prophecy.
Reminds me of that guy on death row who had a 'vision from god' that told him to kill all the non-believers. Think you're in a position to state whether this guy had a 'real' vision? Obviously not, so tell me... what makes you think you're in a position to be confirming the 'visions' of people you'll never know?
When Isaiah's vision talks of a virgin birth, it might of been bizarre; but sometimes that is the nature of prophecy.
The problem being that the bible is not a day-to-day account of events. Can you confirm that anything that was written, was written before the 'fact'? Of course, you can't even confirm that anything in the bible is even based upon reality in any way, shape or form. Can you even confirm that someone had checked Mary's vagina to ensure she really was a virgin? If not, you're working on nothing of credibility, instead just stating that the book is real because the book says so.
What are the signs of a lie?
Fidgeting, scratching your ass, twiddling your thumbs, dilation of your pupils, etc.
There are also other signs to recognise..
The eyes will instinctively look upwards to access information stored in the brain, (it's an autonomic response). Depending on which side they look, (up-left/right), you can tell whether they're accessing the memory centers of the brain, or the creative centers of the brain. You can test this for yourself.
So are we to throw out ancient history, or history altogether for that matter, because some people might exaggerate?
Throw out? Absolutely not.. Believe every word 100% without so much as a molecule of evidence? Damn no. The historical value of the bible and every other ancient text is immense- the same as every historical excavation site, every dinosaur bone, etc.. But you don't
ever just form an instant "truth" because of what you find.
When I was a young man, of about 12, I found the remains of an animal. At that very moment I could have stated it was the remains of a giant octopus and been happy with that "truth". However, what it actually required was a long damn time of research, of fact finding. I compared it with other bones, got an invitation to the Natural History Museum, checked the 'teeth' to see if it was a meat eater or a veggie, in order to narrow the search, and so on and so forth until a definite conclusion was achieved, not based upon something one book said was true, but upon decades of evidence and the ability to 'see' it for myself.
Much like I wouldn't now rely on your 'opinion' if you decided to tell me what it was. And yet for some bizarre reason, you're trusting the word of some unknown ancient guy without so much as flicking an eyelid.
What would give it credibility to you? What constitutes credibility?
Facts. Of which the bible will never have any. Sure, I agree 110% that is such a shame we can't travel back in time and witness it all for ourselves, but the fact remains we can't.
What modern day humans rely on in this issue, is a voice in their head. No offence, but there are a lot of voices, in a lot of heads, that talk a lot of shit. It has about as much credibility as using a mars bar to prove quantum mechanics.
Unless of course... You have actually seen god? If so, my apologies, but I would ask that you inform me as to his appearance. Is he even a he?
Did you ever read that book about Betty and Barney, (no, not the flintstones), who got abducted by aliens? Would you just believe everything they said, because they said it? Would you require a bit more than that to convince you? What would it require? Please, same question to you..
The point is that we do not know the good that might come out of this tragedy.
good for who?
My point is that Jesus was sent that all might have eternal life. That includes those who deny that He and/or God existed.
While I fail to see the worth of god sending a mini-god down to kill himself just to be alive again 30 seconds later, (and as such hardly a 'sacrifice'), throughout the rest of the bible it says many different things, including the future possibility of burning in hell. According to that, us un-believers will end in the lake of fire. Your quote has no purpose, when I could just pick out another one to leave it meaningless.
Ok...Here's a site that explains it probably better than I can.
http://www.carm.org/atheism.htm
I've read the site, and it's laughable, (along with every apologetics website I've seen). There's the old contradiction
"Nobody has ever seen god and lived" vs god saying "I speak to Moses face to face"
Of which the apologetics guy, (a priest), said: "Moses wasn't speaking to the real god, but a in-between that god made to talk to him."
Enough of apologetics sites please, they're pathetic.
