Brother as Son
- Thread starter Orleander
- Start date
Pete most of the ethical issues around cloning have to do with the dangors of genetic defects (like dolly the sheep) and the fact that the child tends to be the age of the orgional DNA rather than the birth age.
If the embro has split already then those cease to be issues.
To be honest i think bells and tiassa are thinking about this like incest rather than just giving a child to there kids (the way a surogate would). The fact that its a clone of the father makes no difference to the fact that he IS the father because he cares for and rasies the child. The same goes for the mother, she is the childs mother because she cares for the child. Where the biology comes from really doesnt matter any more than it matters for sperm and egg donation.
If the embro has split already then those cease to be issues.
To be honest i think bells and tiassa are thinking about this like incest rather than just giving a child to there kids (the way a surogate would). The fact that its a clone of the father makes no difference to the fact that he IS the father because he cares for and rasies the child. The same goes for the mother, she is the childs mother because she cares for the child. Where the biology comes from really doesnt matter any more than it matters for sperm and egg donation.
Bells
Staff member
:bugeye:
If something feels wrong, then doesn't that tell you that it might just be wrong?
Giving birth to one's own child is not the same as giving birth to one's own biological sibling. What's next? Giving birth to a parent's identical twin or sibling?
What could be wrong with this.. Lets see.. If the son has a genetic illness for example? Would the second twin have the same rights over his biological parents' estate is another? What if the child decides he wants to get to know his biological parents or the donors? Since this is obviously one that involves family members, how comfortable would the son feel about his son recognising that his grandparents are his biological parents? Shall I go on? What if the son falls ill and is in need of a kidney transplant for example? Should his son (his identical twin or sibling) feel pressured or obligated to donate a kidney due to the fact that he is his father's brother? And that's just for starters.
Maybe I am.Roman said:
Incest? No.Asguard said:
Wrong? Yes. I don't know about Tiassa, but personally, this is highly unethical. Yes, I am not discounting that the father would view the child as his son instead of his twin or sibling. Same goes for the mother. But this can be taken further. What of the mother in this relationship?
Let me give you an example.. Lets imagine the same scenario as the one posted by Orleander with a twist. Lets imagine the son dies and the wife, having missed out on the chance to have a child with him, asks if she can be the mother of her dead husband's frozen twin or sibling embryo? Should she be allowed to? Lets say she missed her husband so she wants to give birth to his twin or sibling? Yes? No?
Bells, are you dictating to women what they can and cannot do with their bodies?
well legally an embrio belongs to the two people who created it (as shown in the recent case of a women trying to use her dead husband's and her frozen embro's after his death) so legally its the sons mother and father who would have to concent. Wether they chose to or not is up to them.
Bells
Staff member
No.
So you're telling me there is nothing wrong or, for lack of a better term, fucked up, with letting the widow of one twin carry the frozen embryo of the surviving twin because she misses her husband?Asguard said:
:bugeye:
Yes, but it's not sufficient on its own. Feelings aren't always reliable.
How about giving birth to an unrelated baby?
A known genetic illness? Then it would be a bad idea.
No, just as the child conceived with donor sperm or egg has no claim on the donor's estate.
That's not a problem in this case is it? They won't be hard to find!
That sounds like the "yuck" factor again. Why should it be uncomfortable?
If he's not comfortable with it, he wouldn't let it happen.
That's a separate issue (as long as the child isn't being specifically produced to be an organ donor.) Should any compatible donor feel pressured to donate? No, they should not.
I just don't see this case as significantly different to bearing a conceived by donor egg and sperm. There are ethical issues with any form of IVF- but I don't think that this case has any extra. Less, if anything, since the donors are not strangers.
Challenger78
Valued Senior Member
I don't. It's fucked up, but hey, so are people.
bells no i dont really see that i have the right to judge it. I personally wouldnt donate sperm for my brother but there are people who would so what?
As long as a child is going into a loving family and wont have physical harm because of it i dont belive anyone should judge
As long as a child is going into a loving family and wont have physical harm because of it i dont belive anyone should judge
This makes me think of a scenario i recently encountered. My half brother and his partner want a child. She's tried IVF many times to no avail. I offered them my womb to bake their little cookie in. Is that unethical because I'll essentially be having my brother's child. Cool, how redneck.
This is just weird. I think given that the whole scenario is a little strange I don't have a totally considered opinion. I would have though that freezing an embryo and implanting it in your daughter in law would be too outrageous. But it would technically be a relative rather than someone elses kid and you don't know who its parents were.
Bells
Staff member
It's not the same thing as the scenario given by the OP. You would be carrying your brother's child, through IVF. You would not be carrying and giving birth to your brother (or twin) when your parents gave you the embryo's left over from when they used IVF to have you.