Britian Capitulates to Islamic Intolerance

[mouse]

Perhaps religious bigotry would be a better word, although the end results are similar.

What do you think the end result would be?

You need a trial to tell you if Geert Wilders promotes hatred?

As for me personally? Well, he does not incite hatred in me. After watching Fitna, I did not feel the urge to go out and do nasty things to Muslims. But that's not the point. We've laws, and we have judges to judge whether he crossed those laws. So, yes, a trial is needed.

I've often wondered if the Dutch see any cognitive dissonance in expecting immigrants to assimilate to their culture, while sending troops to enforce their culture on other peoples.

Question, do you think the Taliban is representative for all Muslims? You understand, the Dutch are chasing those who trained and supported terrorist actions against allied countries (at least, that's the general idea). They are not targeting Muslims on the whole. If that were the case, Indonesia would make a much a better target.

 

[S.A.M.]

What do you think the end result would be?.

For me personally, it means I get set aside and searched everytime I fly. For others, it has meant Afghanistan and Iraq. Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.

As for me personally? Well, he does not incite hatred in me. After watching Fitna, I did not feel the urge to go out and do nasty things to Muslims. But that's not the point. We've laws, and we have judges to judge whether he crossed those laws. So, yes, a trial is needed.

Thats curious to me. I can generally tell if a person is inciting hatred by the content and slant of his prejudices.

Question, do you think the Taliban is representative for all Muslims? You understand, the Dutch are chasing those who trained and supported terrorist actions against allied countries (at least, that's the general idea). They are not targeting Muslims on the whole. If that were the case, Indonesia would make a much a better target

I think the Taliban is pretty representative for all Pashtuns, who make up a majority of the mountain tribes in Afghanistan.

Does the law abiding Dutch people require evidence for killing people in Afghanistan? Because as I understand it, there is no evidence for the alleged training and support of terrorist groups.

The reverse in fact.

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.

"I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations," bin Laden said.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/index.html

Will you put yourselves on trial for aiding and abetting war crimes against the people of Afghanistan?

Does it even matter if you have?

 

[mouse]

For me personally, it means I get set aside and searched everytime I fly. For others, it has meant Afghanistan and Iraq. Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.

Ah, so you believe that a critical attitude towards Islam leads to all of the above?

Thats curious to me. I can generally tell if a person is inciting hatred by the content and slant of his prejudices.

I can't claim such wisdom. For example, I do not feel there is anything in Fitna that incites hatred, but you seem to have an opposite opinion. Now, either I am missing something, or perhaps we just perceive things differently. We can debate about that, and maybe you can convince me to change my opinion. But if that isn't the case, and you do feel strongly enough about it, we need to fall back to the courts. That's how it works, and that's what is happening right now in the Netherlands.

Does the law abiding Dutch people require evidence for killing people in Afghanistan? Because as I understand it, there is no evidence for the alleged training and support of terrorist groups.

You might be right. You might be wrong. My point was that the Dutch are not there to "export" their culture, nor are they trying to fight Muslims, just because they are Muslims. Whether the Dutch have any right to be in Afghanistan is a separate matter altogether. I will grant you, a topic worth debating about. It, however, has no bearing on the issue whether Mr. Wilders incites hatred or not.

 

[S.A.M.]

Ah, so you believe that a critical attitude towards Islam leads to all of the above?

Yes, don't you? Why do you suppose I get picked on routinely?

I can't claim such wisdom. For example, I do not feel there is anything in Fitna that incites hatred, but you seem to have an opposite opinion. Now, either I am missing something, or perhaps we just perceive things differently. We can debate about that, and maybe you can convince me to change my opinion. But if that isn't the case, and you do feel strongly enough about it, we need to fall back to the courts. That's how it works, and that's what is happening right now in the Netherlands.

From what I have read, there has been an increase in the popularity of Wilders political group since the release of his film. Do you suppose this increase in right wing politics will be better for Muslims in Netherlands? Are they more favorable or less favorable towards Muslims?

You might be right. You might be wrong. My point was that the Dutch are not there to "export" their culture, nor are they trying to fight Muslims, just because they are Muslims. Whether the Dutch have any right to be in Afghanistan is a separate matter altogether. I will grant you, a topic worth debating about. It, however, has no bearing on the issue whether Mr. Wilders incites hatred or not.

The excuse is that they wish to remove the Taliban from power. Since Afghanistan is not the Netherlands, I fail to see what business it is of the Dutch to topple foreign governments.

But I see your POV.

 

[mouse]

Yes, don't you? Why do you suppose I get picked on routinely?

If it is any comfort, I too get picked on and I am a native Dutch. So, blond hair and blue eyes don't necessarily save you from being searched by overly paranoid airport security officers.

From what I have read, there has been an increase in the popularity of Wilders political group since the release of his film.

Yes. Although, I do wonder whether it is actually the movie that got him these votes, or all the hyped up controversy around it. Ironically, the decision of the British government to ban Mr. Wilders, adds to his popularity. His party thrives on all this media attention.

Do you suppose this increase in right wing politics will be better for Muslims in Netherlands? Are they more favorable or less favorable towards Muslims?

It is rather hard to be "less favorable" towards Muslims as a whole, as the constitution clearly prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion. It seems to me extremely unlikely that his party will ever get enough political clout to change the constitution, so I see no immediate worries there. You see, the Netherlands is a democratic country. Nothing prevents Muslims from establishing their own party or from voting on parties which run on another platform than Wilders.

 

[S.A.M.]

If the Dutch are as reasonable as you come across, then there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

 

[(Q)]

Perhaps religious bigotry would be a better word, although the end results are similar.

Then, you do admit this has nothing to do with racism. You've been lying all along to promote your agenda.

 

[(Q)]

Yes, don't you? Why do you suppose I get picked on routinely?

Because you promote propaganda and are a liar. Simple really.

 

[(Q)]

Have you seen Fitna? If thats not inciting racial hatred, I don't know what is.

But, you DO know what racial hatred is, you spout it all the time. Religions are not races, hence making a film about religion is not racial hatred.

In fact, I know many Muslims who think this is the opinion of the Dutch people about Muslims.

They are obviously wrong, but they will pretend to be right because Muslims are intolerant to religious criticism.

So, if Muslims refuse to see what is being wrought from their religion, the rest of the world has to show them.

 

[Zakariya04]

i dont know why the dude was banned, it just give him more publicity and plays right into his hands.. the other night the news was full of it.......... I wish he was allowed in and nothing was made of it.

well at least there is consistency (well maybe) louis farakhan is banned from visiting england, but the thing is when he is banned its hardly headlining news like this dude's banning was!!!

the dude should be allowed in and have his filim played all over the place, if you dont want to see it just dont buy it etc etc etc

 

[S.A.M.]

But, you DO know what racial hatred is, you spout it all the time. Religions are not races, hence making a film about religion is not racial hatred.

Its the little brown people who get picked on. I have friends who are Hindu Bengali, Sikhs and Christians. But they "look" liek Arabs and get picked up for security checks. Even if its about religion, it acquires a racial bias.

Like this:

The wall calendar showing men with turbans and long beards has disappeared.

Gone, too, are the bruises on his scalp, the 10 stitches that closed a bloody gash and most of the headaches.

What remain are the searing memories of an unprovoked attack, the fear that it could happen again and the reminders that life won't ever be quite the same.

Karnail "Kail" Singh is a Renton resident, India native, world traveler, poet, writer and SeaTac motel owner.

What he is not is a Muslim. But a transient apparently thought he was. Five weeks after the 9/11 attacks, the man clubbed Singh unconscious in the sunlit lobby of the SeaTac Crest Motor Inn.

"You still here? Go to back to Allah!" Singh remembers the man shouting just before striking him twice.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/139077_911sikh11.html

The Sikh community even out up posters and ads