I was over at my sister in laws and she was bitching about a her sister in law and one thing in particular came up and that is that she started breast feeding her child and how horrible was it that she didn't cover herself up or leave the room to feed the baby and it reminded me of a debate that was on here a while ago about jurors breast feeding and how horrible it is and I was wondering, why is it WOMEN seem to have such a problem with other women breast feeding?
Breasts
- Thread starter Asguard
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IMO, this is one of those societal conditioning classics.
On the one hand, we have a culture that worships the mammary gland and a whole industry built around it's enhancement and display, while on the other hand, nursing a child as nature intended grosses many out. I mean, really, all that gustatory lip-smacking and suckling and gurgling.....
Then there is the fear that men are such sex-crazed creatures that the mere sight of a female breast is a titillation that will incite them to lose control in public, if they are not among those who find such display off-putting.
We are a society with very confused sexual values and a poor understanding of our own biology. We like to think we are making progress but your OP underlines how unrealistic that notion remains. :shrug:
On the one hand, we have a culture that worships the mammary gland and a whole industry built around it's enhancement and display, while on the other hand, nursing a child as nature intended grosses many out. I mean, really, all that gustatory lip-smacking and suckling and gurgling.....
Then there is the fear that men are such sex-crazed creatures that the mere sight of a female breast is a titillation that will incite them to lose control in public, if they are not among those who find such display off-putting.
We are a society with very confused sexual values and a poor understanding of our own biology. We like to think we are making progress but your OP underlines how unrealistic that notion remains. :shrug:
Interestingly, even among western societies that you'd think would have very similar attitudes to breast feeding, attitudes are in fact wildly varying.
I saw a documentary recently about breastfeeding in Britain. Apparently, only 3% of Brits choose to breastfeed their babies, despite the mounds of evidence that it is the best thing to do. One of the main reasons seems to be that British women (especially younger mums) tend to feel like they'll be ogled or looked down upon if they flip out a breast in a public place - even discreetly.
Breastfeeding is initially very difficult for most new mothers, and also can seem like one of the easiest things to give up on to make mum's life easier. Of course, what new mums don't realise is that the bother later on of washing and sterilising bottles, preparing them, carrying them around and so on far outweighs the temporary pain and trouble of getting the feeding right early on.
Having said that, it is not true that all mum's are able to breastfeed. Some do have legitimate problems that make it impractical or impossible.
I saw a documentary recently about breastfeeding in Britain. Apparently, only 3% of Brits choose to breastfeed their babies, despite the mounds of evidence that it is the best thing to do. One of the main reasons seems to be that British women (especially younger mums) tend to feel like they'll be ogled or looked down upon if they flip out a breast in a public place - even discreetly.
Breastfeeding is initially very difficult for most new mothers, and also can seem like one of the easiest things to give up on to make mum's life easier. Of course, what new mums don't realise is that the bother later on of washing and sterilising bottles, preparing them, carrying them around and so on far outweighs the temporary pain and trouble of getting the feeding right early on.
Having said that, it is not true that all mum's are able to breastfeed. Some do have legitimate problems that make it impractical or impossible.
I'm honestly shocked that the figure is so low...
On the one hand, we have a culture that worships the mammary gland and a whole industry built around it's enhancement and display, while on the other hand, nursing a child as nature intended grosses many out. I mean, really, all that gustatory lip-smacking and suckling and gurgling.....
Right - but notice that we don't glamorize the breast as a source of nourishment for infants. We glamorize the sexualized breast, as an entity that exists for the sexual excitement of males. The spectacle of breast feeding undermines that, and forcefully reminds us that breasts are actually entities that exist for the nourishment of infants, and not for male sexual gratification. So the same people that are all about seeing as much boobs as possible in sexualized contexts, are thereby turned off by the spectacle of breast feeding to the same extent.
Agreed. I thought I captured that perspective with the following: '.....if they are not among those who find such display off-putting,' but you have elaborated on the matter nicely. Thank you.
This thread isn't at all what I was hoping for...
Anyway, I think scheherazade has it right. It's social conditioning. Our culture for some reason reviles the naked body, and particularly the human breast (though I think the penis is on par, the only difference being that there aren't as many penises being whipped out in the street or shown on TV for the stuck-ups to react to). There's no real reason why breastfeeding should be offensive to anyone, on any level.
Anyway, I think scheherazade has it right. It's social conditioning. Our culture for some reason reviles the naked body, and particularly the human breast (though I think the penis is on par, the only difference being that there aren't as many penises being whipped out in the street or shown on TV for the stuck-ups to react to). There's no real reason why breastfeeding should be offensive to anyone, on any level.
The problem is, we let a select few arrogant loudmouths be heard over the mountains of evidence saying that breastfeeding is a good thing... look up the medical information you can find on all the advantages of breast feeding your newborn... from better infantile immune systems to the baby sleeping better to bonding with the mother, all the way down to the dirty diapers not smelling as bad as a kid fed formula... there, literally, is NO GOOD REASON not to breast feed if you are physically/medically capable of doing so... now, if you have some sort of viral/bacterial/fungal infection, or some sort of terrible, transmittable disease, sure, that's a good enough reason not to.
Conservative Christian upbringing of any nationality will have that effect, James, although it is definitely also a British trait. I was raised to keep myself well covered as I began to noticeably develop female attributes, for apparently men are easily aroused at the sight of exposed skin beyond the wrist and ankle. The first time that I saw a woman nursing I was almost twenty and I was both embarrassed myself and embarrassed on her behalf because of having been raised in such a confining sense of shame about being female.
I think if both sexes ran around scantily clad we'd soon enough get over our fascination with crotches and mammary glands because most of us look better with at least a little left to the imagination, lol....
The first time that I saw a woman nursing I was almost twenty and I was both embarrassed myself and embarrassed on her behalf because of having been raised in such a confining sense of shame about being female. I think if both sexes ran around scantily clad we'd soon enough get over our fascination with crotches and mammary glands because most of us look better with at least a little left to the imagination, lol....
The 3% means in public.
Probably because us British men are a bit pervy about it.
Lucky little devil, etc.
Most women breastfeed in the UK. Newborns at least.
It is probably less hassle to feed the child breast milk from a bottle when out and about.
Bells
Staff member
Ermm no.
By the time you sterilise the bottle, ensure you are carrying it in a cooler bag with ice-packs, and have a flask of hot water to later warm the milk in, container to place bottle in to warm it, making sure you aren't out too long so that the milk doesn't go off, having to deal with bursting boobs if you are out longer past the next feed...
No, it isn't 'less hassle' to feed the baby with bottled breast milk when you're out. It is a nightmare.
I have met very few mothers who actually sterilized bottles past the baby being 2 weeks of age. They say they do and whatever, but in reality they wash them in dish soap and warm water with any other dishes and move on. Our little ones aren't as fragile as Gerber would have us think. I have had 4 kids and like any other new mom I would fuss and worry and follow the doctors' strict instructions about sterilization and crap, only to be tired of it within a couple of weeks and have several older wiser women tell me that all that sterilization stuff is just scare tactics and washing with soap and water is all that is necessary. I never had a kid get sick because the bottle wasn't properly sterilized. Actually, my kids tended to get thrush until I stopped sterilizing. Go figure. When you consider how much they pick up and shove in their mouth and manage to survive you get over it quick. Bottle feeding is "easier" than breast feeding because you don't have to deal with the obnoxious glares from men and women both and your breasts will dry up preventing the need to wear boob diapers when out without your child. If easier is what you want then bottle feed. If you want your kid to have the healthiest food source you breast feed, keeping in mind it is only as healthy as what the mother eats. So if you drink soda and eat like most adult humans, formula could possibly be more healthy than your nutrient deprived breast milk.
As far as people being opposed to public breastfeeding, they are usually just people who have very skewed perspectives and their opinions should not matter.
As far as people being opposed to public breastfeeding, they are usually just people who have very skewed perspectives and their opinions should not matter.
Have to disagree with you on the ease, I watched my brother when his daughter was born and the crap he lugged around simply to feed her (she was on formula), compared to mum just lugging her breasts around. Sure there are some disadvantages, dad can't feed if he's out with bub, the hospital also gave us some Infomation when my partner was pregnant which said that some dads feel left out because they don't that bonding with there kids (it suggests dads get bath time to make up for it*shrug*) but over all the advantages far out weigh the disadvantages especially in the first few days where what the baby is actually getting is mums immune virus database. Also it reduces mums risk of breast cancer and I belive risk of PND (though that could be a cause effect mix up, ie mum had PND so she doesn't WANT to breast feed)
No, but I was raised strict Southern Baptist
Conservative Christian upbringing of any nationality will have that effect, James, although it is definitely also a British trait. I was raised to keep myself well covered as I began to noticeably develop female attributes, for apparently men are easily aroused at the sight of exposed skin beyond the wrist and ankle.
YEP! same here
Bells
Staff member
That's interesting actually. Here they say you can stop sterilising past 6 months. I used to have a microwave one, where you wash the bottles, stack it into this giant container thing and zap it for like 5 - 10 minutes in the microwave. I never went for the sterilising solution ones as the smell of bleach from them was off-putting. And there was no way in hell I was going to boil bottles. I breastfed my children, but like any paranoid first parent (with the first), I had, on a few occasions, taken breast milk in a bottle when out and about and it was a nightmare. So in the end with him, on very hot days in summer, I would give him water from the bottle between feeds just to make sure he stayed hydrated.
I always found breastfeeding easier than bottle feeding, just because of all the extra baggage you had to lug around (the half a dozen nappies, wipes, spare clothes (explosive poos, enough said), hats, sunscreens, nappy rash cream was enough - then the wraps, changing mats, stroller..)..
And I do have to agree, when breastfeeding, you have to maintain a healthy diet (similar to the one you should be eating while pregnant). I loved it though. I loved the versatility breastfeeding gave me. I never had to worry about mixing formula, warming it, etc, especially when I was out shopping or out to a meal somewhere, etc. It was great. As for the glares and stares, I had breastfeeding tops, which you never saw anything at all and when I didn't wear those, I had a muslin shawl that I would drape over and have it so that I could look down and see my son feeding but no one could see anything. The shawl was good though, as he wasn't distracted while feeding and all he could see was my face above him..
It is a shame that people do make rude comments or stare. But the way I saw it was that they could stare as much as they wanted or say what they wanted. My children's needs far outweighed and was more important than their rudeness or their stupid and uneducated attitudes.