Brain, etc.

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whitewolf

asleep under the juniper bush
Registered Senior Member
In some recent conversation, someone said that all brains are the same. Are all human brains identical, to the milimeter? If there are deviations, what effect does that have (if there is no difference, what effect does that have)?

Also, potential for intelligence is inherited. If someone was born "stupid" (for lack of a better word), is it possible for that person to evolve into a genius relying on mere nurture?

PS. I'm not really sure about the things that go on in the brain. I know that oxygen is important for thinking, but that's about all. Please, be brief, but take your time to explain everything fully.
 
that person was me
I think (only my oppinion) that all human brains have almost equal processing potential. THe difference between an idiot or a genius is how good they can or can't use the brain for one purpose or another.
if a genetic defect is such that it doesn't allow the human to make some processing physically then it's a hardware problem that can not really be changed (well, gene therapy is on it's way), but if it's a software problem, i.e., human has no hardware problems, but has undeveloped thinking (for one reason or another) then it's just his arrogance and environment to blame not the brain. this applies to that slangish word -> avarage joe
 
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some people are born stupid but that is due to the mothers diet during pregnancy not genes
 
There is already a huge size variation (which has nothing to do with intelligence apparently). How can they be identical to the millimeter?
 
I do not have the background to really call myself an expert, but I doubt the wiring 'architecture' would be the same for everyone; whether that be in the physical layout and/or the chemical stablity of the neurons (there can be more than 10,000 conections per neuron of which there are millions of neurons - The 'Campbell' text book I think).

On a side note, I would quite like to copy my own neural states and perhaps paste them onto a more stable medium, like a artificial neural network. My Biomed Eng w/ Cyb (Reading uni, UK) course starts in a couple of months, but even then I think we're many years away from something like that!
 
spuriousmonkey said:
There is already a huge size variation (which has nothing to do with intelligence apparently). How can they be identical to the millimeter?
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that is not from me. I never actually talked about physical size, but the potential processing power. the ability how to use that power not included
 
Blue_UK said:
I do not have the background to really call myself an expert, but I doubt the wiring 'architecture' would be the same for everyone; whether that be in the physical layout and/or the chemical stablity of the neurons (there can be more than 10,000 conections per neuron of which there are millions of neurons
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Obviously. If it was, we would all think the same! That is, unless u believe in a soul. I really hate having to bring that exception into everything I say :D Its getting annoying now!
 
whitewolf said:
In some recent conversation, someone said that all brains are the same. Are all human brains identical, to the milimeter? If there are deviations, what effect does that have (if there is no difference, what effect does that have)?
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The diference in two human brains put two seperate fingerprint differences to shame. Physical characterizations that is. There are physical deviations which may or may not effect intelligence. A bigger brain does not mean a bigger IQ.

potential for intelligence is inherited. If someone was born "stupid" (for lack of a better word), is it possible for that person to evolve into a genius relying on mere nurture?
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First of all your question becomes moot when you use the word "stupid"...how is stupid being used? in what context? Retarded? or just lazy? No one is born with a logical functioning brain, only the bare neccessities to survive. Most of the brains crucial development takes place after birth. Certain creative and artistic traits can be passed on to childern. The rest is all shaping of personality...which is still horribly simplifying the matter.

I'm not really sure about the things that go on in the brain. I know that oxygen is important for thinking, but that's about all. Please, be brief, but take your time to explain everything fully.
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Thats like playing Russian Roulette and saying you want no blood to spill.

vslayer said:
some people are born stupid but that is due to the mothers diet during pregnancy not genes
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Or genetic defects, breakdown of DNA etc etc

I think (only my oppinion) that all human brains have almost equal processing potential.
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Yup, some just grasp at certain things better than others.

THe difference between an idiot or a genius is how good they can or can't use the brain for one purpose or another.
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See this is where it gets tricky. One must first define what an idiot is. A lazy child not interested in learning and is quite haughty? He may then ignore his hw and play videogames earning top scores while I may do my hw get an A on the test but die at every level in the same videogame. Certainly two different uses of thought processing and memory functioning being put to test.

Look at chatty 14 year old popular girls.....maybe not be great students but they are shrewed social beings. They know how to get attention and how to manipulate those around them to keep that crown of popularity all the while being downright atrocious to those around her....requires intelligence no?
 
ok, replace idiot with the lowest end and genius with the highest. somewhere in the 1/4 sits an avarage joe.
 
Everybodies brain is different based upon their health, the way they were taught, their parents and of course any accidents they might of had. It all amounts up and decides how Stimulated certain regions of brain are.

Stimulation of the brains regions generates better neurological makeup in the sense that the Axioms within the brain are more aligned and maintained with stimulation to keep them as an intact neural pathway.

An example of a less used path is by attempting to write with the hand you don't usually write with. Some people will write worse than a young child, while others might be Ambidextrous and capable of writing as well with both hands.

The person that can't write too well, will have a region of brain that was understimulated, with more stimulation it would be possible to re-engineer that part of the brain to a degree however it will never be as good as if they had started from young during early development (But don't let that put you off trying).

A person is rarely born "stupid" and nurture isn't necessarily going to iron out chemical imbalances an individual suffers from. (For instance Caffine, E-numbers in food, Alcohol, Cannabis or other narcotic substances can cause alterations in the natural equilibrium of the brains chemistry, and is none to wise if an individuals chemistry is already off balance.)

However tutoring is proven to change a persons mind, for instance when you get on a new console with a new game and a new button combination, your not going to be able to do very well to start with in the game as you get use to the buttons. But as you play, your reactions become more aligned with what your trying to accomplish on the screen until your beat the game. (or cheat)
You'll also notice that if you play the game to a silly hour of the morning (or 36 hour stint) the amount of caffine and lack of sleep is enough to make your gaming go bad (you get worse at the game through exhaustion and slower reaction times.)
 
Stryderunknown said:
You'll also notice that if you play the game to a silly hour of the morning (or 36 hour stint) the amount of caffine and lack of sleep is enough to make your gaming go bad (you get worse at the game through exhaustion and slower reaction times.)
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Speaking from personal experience ehh? ;)
 
People's brains are different. No two exactly alike. Some even have the left and right hemisphere's switched around. Language on the right, spacial on the left. Very few, but some. Others have some language areas in the right or some spacial areas in the left. Stuttering, dyslexia, and other learning disorders are associated with this phenomenon.

There is also recent work in glial cells. Once consigned to maintenance roles, now they are believed to be a network within the network. They control neural activity. Increase the signal from this neuron, decrease it from that. Albert Einstein's brain was quite unremarkable. But, it's glial network was vast. More so than the average brain.

There are also marked differences in the brains of women and men. In women, the corpus callosum and anterior commisure (white matter connecting the hemispheres) are bigger and more interconnected. Women are more in touch with their right brain than men. And more likely to fall prey to it. ;)

No two brains are alike.

However, with the assertion that most people can learn the same things given the proper circumstances... I tend to believe this. Within limits. The problem in most instances, I feel, is motivation. And what is motivation? Brain structure?
 
this all brings up a very interesting question.
what influence does memory/experience have on brain morphology. if we were able to culture a brain with the exact same morphology of say SJ Gould, would it have his life experiences, memories, intelligence? or, could there be 2 brains with the exact same morphology, exact same dendritic conections, etc. but be from 2 different people?
 
spuriousmonkey said:
Not if there is cellular memory.
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yes, this gets very exciting here.

it's not outside the realm of imagination to speculate that we'd have the technology to create, or culture a brain. there are plenty of labs doing it with connective tissue and epithelial tissue. it is also not outside the realm of imagination to speculate that we could one day have the technology to map exactly the human brain, i mean every cell and every dendritic connection.

combine the two technologies and suddenly we can test these hypotheses, i.e. morphology/experience.

there was a cool experiment done with planaria. a group of them were trained to associate light with food. experimenters could get the worms to come to light thinking they were to be fed. they then chopped up the planaria. planaria can regenerate when they're chopped up, and these did. the chopped up planaria retained the training, even those parts that did not contain the brain!!!!

the possibilities are mind boggling
 
I can't remember where exactly, but I have heard that neurons have some kind of memory.

The question is where this memory resides. Is it present in the gross morphology, or is far more subtle and resides in for instance internal balance of certain regulatory proteins?

Can this memory be really emulated by reconstructing the morphological structure?
 
Stryderunknown,
Out of interest, what's your academic background?

Same goes for everyone else, while I'm at it.

Just wondering. :|
 
spuriousmonkey said:
I can't remember where exactly, but I have heard that neurons have some kind of memory.

The question is where this memory resides. Is it present in the gross morphology, or is far more subtle and resides in for instance internal balance of certain regulatory proteins?

Can this memory be really emulated by reconstructing the morphological structure?
Click to expand...

An article in Scientific American about drug abuse (within a year ago) indicated that certain neurotransmitters and regulatory proteins (i.e. enzymes) can be affected by stimulation.

It is well known that neurons will chemically change at junctions, as a method of 'weighting' the firing potential of incoming signals. (Neural Networks, Phil Picton)

I imagine our memory operates by both on the chemical level and by the firing states.
 
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