That is indeed what Hawking was saying.
I did no such thing. I quoted Hawking's opinion as a representation of the mainstream scientific position. What I'm looking for is an acknowledgement from guys like RJ and Farsight that they recognize that they are arguing against the mainstream scientific opinion.
I'm reasonably certain they know it, they just are avoiding it because of the implications.
For as long as 'mainstream' OR 'anti-mainstream' proponents base any assumption/interpretation etc on the abstraction pure and simple of a mathematical 'space-Time' construct, then NEITHER 'side' is arguing from any reality basis. So any 'in facts' statements from either 'side' are to be taken as pure hypothetical unproven speculations/interpretations from such abstractions, not reality.
Did you read the whole post #359 and other posts mentioned therein? Do you recognize the problem with continuing to use abstractions as if it is reality when discussing these things that will inevitably continue at cross-purposes perforce of protagonists on both 'sides' taking abstractions as proven facts which neither side can really claim IN FACT....and hence the origin of the present/continuing impasse in such futile abstraction-based arguments/approaches/discussions I observe here and elsewhere?
I really have to go now. See/read you all round. Cheers; and enjoy your future (hopefully more reality based, on both 'sides') discussions, Russ, everyone!