Being Good at Being Bad

[Prince_James]

James R.:

Sic semper tyrannis.

 

[James R]

You remind me of John Wilkes Booth. Same type, same language.

 

[madanthonywayne]

madanthonywayne:

Possibly also the emotional hardening of cutting into someone and getting wrist-deep in the blood and guts.

Certainly. To have the confidence to cut into someone and fix whatever's wrong requires something of a "god" complex. While this serves them well in the operating room, it serves them less well outside it.

 

[Grantywanty]

Grantywanty:

Where I shall agree with you that morality is partially about intention, to disregard excellence at any task seems to be blatantly absurd.

I don't disregard excellence.

We call mother Teresa or Gandhi great because they were exceptional at compassion and such stuff. They'd be less moral, presumably, if they were significantly less skilled at their task. Certainly, we wouldn't call them the epitome of great human beings.

I actually dislike Mother Teresa and there is a serious book THE WHORE OF CALCUTTA that backs up my intuitions about her. Christopher Hitchens is the author.
No I do not think you become less moral.

How can you trust such bizarre intuition? It is often the case that people who know serial killers affirmed how wonderful and kind they were to them and how shocked they were to find out that they were butchers. I think Bundy was held to be so by his neighbours.

So because some people have poor intuitions none of us have good ones.

But certainly, the surgeon is more moral by saving thousands of lives, whereas the janitor does nothing whatsoever of importance on that level?

See, I disagree absolutely. He is a great surgeon, period. If he does it simply for fame and money and loathes people - not that we need this extreme example - the janitor could easily be a more moral person. Or actually a better person (more good).

 

[Grantywanty]

But certainly, the surgeon is more moral by saving thousands of lives, whereas the janitor does nothing whatsoever of importance on that level?

One could easily draw the conlusion here that surgeons are more likely to be good people. (since their skills at saving people are more likely to have this or that Newtonian effect)

But I do not think that surgeons are better people than janitors (in fact my intuition leans toward the janitors)

And I want it at least noticed that I am very comfortable distinguishing between the two types of goodness: one connected to empathy, humanity, warmth, love, kindness and the other connected to skill and it seems for you outcome.

And I am not alone in this.

Think about how many people have said things like
he's a good ______________, but a real piece of shit (real asshole etc.)
and changing good to great does not stop this. Often the good people have not done anything remarkable, they just feel good to be around, and it is this center of goodness that we love them for, not how nicely they gripped my shoulder when my mother died, but that quality in them that I could feel just being near them.

I don't think you trust your intuition very much.

 

[Grantywanty]

How can you trust such bizarre intuition? It is often the case that people who know serial killers affirmed how wonderful and kind they were to them and how shocked they were to find out that they were butchers. I think Bundy was held to be so by his neighbours.

this raises problems for evaluating a good person by their acts also. People with poor intuitions were fooled by a facade and good behavior.