duendy said:
d__but does this 'model' cover it all?....i don't think so. a model is that--a model. a persepctive, it can't presume to know it 'all'. also, a model ABOUt time and experiential FEELINg of time and ternity is different. i don't have to say 'isn't it?'
No current model can cover it all. Some future model may. Model's of time
and human emotional perception are from two different fields, hence they
are different (as you have correctly pointed out).
duendy said:
d__i am being associatively metaphoric. 'circular' for me as a symbol of dynamic continuum is a little static-ish. rather, spiral, is more dynamic as it is circular yet evolves
I see, kind of like the 4 primary seasons on Earth. They change over time.
While 'cylical' doesn't exclude change I can see how 'spiral' symbolically
includes it and is aesthetically more attractive.
duendy said:
d__-'outside' our universe is quite mindblowin isn't it? the very UNIVERSe is mindblowin enough. but i am interested to hear more about that!
Yep, it's really cool stuff. People are still exploring it all and keeping abreast
with current cosomology events can help satisfy that interest.
duendy said:
d__ok....'you' would include what you like and dislike. your looks, your aspirations. our beliefs, character. all what you think you is. if you have had hallucinogenic experience or any mnatrual Big Experience, then you might have had insight that what you thought 'you' was/is' is from another persepctive 'limited'...i.e you may exp[erience sense of time and speace differently. might like things you hadn't before and hate things you hadn't before. you may feel expanded and merge with things, etc etc
so, when 'you' die, what then?
Ahhh, in this case 'YOU' seems to be referring as sentience / conciousness.
In this scenario, 'YOU' is the result of a complex network of chemial and
electrical impulses (the brain). There is evidence that supports this and
no evidence that contradicts it. Before that brain goes live, 'YOU' does
not exist. After all activity in the brain ceases, 'YOU' does not exist. I
hope this makes sense.
duendy said:
d__but i dont see that. alright i understand science uses math and creates techmology that wasn't around in our past, bt regarding feeling of being part of Nature, and not having the modern sense of alienation is what i am referring to. 'facts' is one thing, REALITy another.
I think I understand what is being expressed here. If we're talking about
feeling alienated from nature then this is more of the result of how we
evolved (as a species) and the environment we are in. Living in high rises,
programming computers, maximizing productivity, stock markets, ... these
are all human inventions. As a species we have an inherent satisfaction
with hunting and gathering (farming). Of course we have created an artificial
environment for ourselves and many people feel out of sync with nature. In
the past few hundred years we've introduced increadible environmental
pressures on ourselves and are self-focusing natural selection towards
modern life. Those who cannot adapt will be unhappy and less likely to
procreate. Those who can will be happy and more likely to procreate.
On a sidenote, a fact and reality are one in the same. Reality shows us
how things are (the fact). If we choose to accept something else as
true then reality at some point may come and contradict our acceptance.
If I believe that I cannot be harmed by fire then reality would contradict
my belief the moment I stepped into a raging fire.
"So you are being a bit superior here claiming that that is wrong and modern science is right, right?...that UNLESS one is a professional scientist one cant wonder or voice this wonder, and explore about things, cause it wont be authentic--as the scientists exploration is.
The response is defensive and not aligned to what my original post stated.
What can be seen is that my post was interpreted as a threat and met
with defensiveness.
duendy said:
d__haha..and that is YOUR interpreation. i am straight about this. you offered an incondruous example as an example of ancient mythic associative feeling and thinking. thus i assumed you were right off all insight of our ancestors. which is naive.
iwonder if you like poetry. do you see any insight in it?
And one of our interpretations is closer aligned to the truth (good ol'
facts / reality). It's interesting to note that people with better alignment
tend to have a natural advantage in today's science-tempered culture.
In the time of crusades (or equivelant), this may have been a disadvantage.
I can just see Einstein being burned alive for heresy.
Poetry is a fun means for creative expression. I've written some for school.
It's a good exercise for the brain and can elicit some very satisfying
feelings.
duendy said:
d__so is the criteria for science's philosphical rightness in the technology it produces
Science enables us to experiment with reality, make observations of reality,
predict outcomes of reality, and create things in reality. Cell phones and
GPS units are inventions based on scientific knowledge. The fact that they
work as expected validates the 'correctness' of the models they are based
on. There is no phiolosphy involved here. Reality is what it is. Science is
the best tool we have to understand it and do stuff with it.
duendy said:
d__to alighned fact? but again we are with 'facts'. this is why i am against mechanical science. don't know if you've read Chrales dicken's novel, 'Hard Times'? well it begins with a character, 'Mr Gradgrind' saying 'Facts, facts, facts"...Dickens was revealing the emerging Industrial fascist ethic. where 'facts' overbear FEELING. the sense of being WITH Nature, rather than a product of it, as in a machine.
It's a fact that all information is processed by a person's emotional
center first. It's a fact that people have emotional needs (they want to feel
happy, they don't want to feel accused, they don't want feel heavy
obligation, they want to feel heard, etc.). It's a fact that people feel (it's
another survival mechanism).
The reason all this knowledge exists is because of science. It helps
us uncover why we feel the things we do, what needs we have, how
to fulfill those needs, and so on. It's is very empowering to feel something
and know exactly why that is felt.
duendy said:
d__but that is time and space isn't it. us looking back at times linear progress through space? I am meaning 'before BB and Life as also beyond time and space. beyond the abstracted understanding of 'time' and 'space'
I think I understand now. My response is that there may have never
been a 'before' (a starting point so to speak). M-theory suggests just
the opposite, that our cyclical universe was the result of a dimension in a
larger universe becoming unstable (lack of energy / false vaccum / something
else). Since then we could have had trillions of big bangs with our universe
(we don't have a way ot knowing at this point). Beyond the topmost
universe that we're linked to (and this is where things get weird), there are
assertions of an environment where bubbles of dimensions form top level
universes (an infinite number of them). There could be realities out there
(bound to other bubbles) which behave in manners that we have not
even conceived yet. Like I said, going outside our universe just gets weird.
duendy said:
d__well i had been chatting with Silas. and he mentioned about BB, and later i got an insight about what was before it and before life. i know that we just didn't know either. this made me see a connective mystery between science and religous exploration.
i have a great interest in Goddess, and how prepatriarchal mythology doesn't split matter from spirit/consciousness. I often hear athiests saying they reject 'God' yet not seem to mention of ackowledge that it was the 'God' people who oppressed Goddess/Nature
Goddess is embodied Earth and universe, so, unlike the 'god' idea of ceation from 'nothing'--as in A creator 'DOING' it, with Goddess she is the darkness/void/crearix/chaos from which--in that mythology--all, even light, springs forth from..spiralically, eternally
I think I understand. There is a concept of a 'Goddess' whom is a female
sentient entity and is quite literally the fabric of the universe. I hope you
find what you are looking for regarding the 'Goddess'. I would suggest looking
for evidence of the universe acting with sentience and I would be interested
to know the final results of the investigation.