Bashing republican\democrats thread
- Thread starter ElectricFetus
- Start date
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/05/kerry.mccain.ap/index.html
Apparently Republican and Bush backer, and senator from my own state John McCain thinks this swiftboat veterans add is a load of crap too. Its worth pointing out that for over half the add the vets seem to be commenting on the duality of Kerry's having faught in the war and then protested it, but it is presented as if they are saying he lied about ever doing anything great in the war.
Apparently Republican and Bush backer, and senator from my own state John McCain thinks this swiftboat veterans add is a load of crap too. Its worth pointing out that for over half the add the vets seem to be commenting on the duality of Kerry's having faught in the war and then protested it, but it is presented as if they are saying he lied about ever doing anything great in the war.
nbachris2788
Registered Senior Member
Maybe Bush keeps reminding people that we are in the time of war? That is, before he flip flops and tells everybody he's the peace president.
John Kerry lost four best friends because of the war. What they're doing to him is absolutely despicable. These vets are right wing thugs first and objective judges a way distant third. They're purely concerned with Kerry's politics, not his valour or courage. Anybody who had the courage to fight in a swift boat is a hero, period.
And if Kerry's a "coward" for his meagre deeds in Vietnam, then LOL, what does that make Bush? This is not an effective angle in the long run because trying to contrast Vietnam careers is not a winning issue for the RNC.
God bless John McCain. I hope people listen to his sane voice.
Voodoo Child
Registered Senior Member
OTH, I'll bet you can't find a single member of the national guard who found fault with the way Bush led. He didn't leave anyone with a bad impression. Dubya's a patriot.
Bush lead someone in the air guard?
Pangloss said:
Wrong. HE BROUGHT IT UP.
I just heard an interview with the doctor who treated him for his first injury, which was NOT incurred under enemy fire according to the doctor's account of the scenario as reported by the enlisted members on his boat. Further, the doctor also said that he was reportedly scolded by his fellow officers for poorly handling the grenade launcher that caused the injury. He supposedly fired it at the shore while his boat was too close. That caused debris from shore to end up stuck in his arm. He reported the injury was a match stick size piece of metal sticking out of his upper arm. The doctor removed the metal with forceps and put a bandaid on the injury, which Kerry himself had cause while NOT under enemy fire at all.
I disagree. Brave in intent, cowardly in action. The doctor recieved a request for issuance of a purple heart and denied it. He reported that papers were signed two months later by somoene entirely removed from Kerry's chain of command. It was also reported that he told his men on more than one occasion that he was going to be the next JFK.
Not if they knew the real story (if the doctor and the swift boat guys are truthful, which I have no reason to believe they aren't considering the number of them seeming to corroborate the story. okay at the same time it's possible that it's all lies, the truth is hard to find when the media is all you have to go on). It's quite obvious to me that he, like many members of the military, was just using any excuse to get a medal because it looks good on paper.
I find THAT unbelievable, especially considering that it is KERRY making vietnam an issue. If you don't believe it, listen to his VP candidate's intro from his trip to missouri the other day. His service in Vietnam was the crux of his introduction. I think Kerry is a scumbag and I do not appreciate his service whatsoever, as it is abusive bitches like him that shame the military. Remember, three purple hearts and he's out of there. Note his anti-war speeches right after his return. IMO, his purple heart seeking got him two things that he desperately wanted. 1) Out of vietnam and 2) Good looking paper he could abuse as testimony to his character. I don't blame him for wanting out of vietnam, but that is not "brave" or "honorable" in any way. It's simply human, and his actively circumvent his chain of command to achieve a purple heart of all things, is apparently a testimony to the WEAKNESS of his character. He LIED to get it.
Note that I wouldn't necessarily object so strongly if HE didn't make this shit such an issue. Man he makes me sick and is was a disgrace to the military. Don't forget his speech after his return was used against POWs like Mckain.
Kerry: Apparently a true American slimeball.
EDIT: Oh, and medals in the military is a highly politicized affair. You don't necessarily have to do anything to get one except kiss the right person's ass. In war time, each commander has incentive to award his troops as many medals as he can halfassed justify, as it reflects back on the commander and makes him more likely to get promoted. I don't know if that's the case here, but medals aren't necesarily reflective of anything positive. I've seen it first hand. LOL. In Saudi, a number of people in my unit got all kinds of medal for simply doing their jobs. I saw no particular outstanding performance, yet medals galore. I believe my commanding officer scored a silver star for merely halfassed doing his job. Note my unit was never even close to coming under fire. This isn't a complaint, I merely intend it to inform you if you haven't been in the military.
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The Swift Boat advert has caught many pundits off-guard with its ferocity. Excerpts from the August 5, 2004, prime-time edition of MSNBC's After Hours:
Furthermore, some pundit somewhere--I'm searching for a reference--noted that in addition to impugning John Kerry's character as a liar, so also does this ad impugn the characters of the men who served with John Kerry. The ad by proxy of doubting Kerry also doubts the men who served with Kerry. Additionally, there is the tale told by Jim Rassman. We can say what we want about Kerry being a politician, but if Rassman says Kerry saved his life, I'm inclined to believe it.
This strategy could end up backfiring, and calling attention back to Bush's service record. And heaven knows, that's the last thing the GOP or the Bush/Cheney campaign want.
____________________
• Transcript. "After Hours." MSNBC, August 5, 2004. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5621606/
See Also
• Transcript. "Judy Woodruff's Inside Politics." CNN, August 5, 2004. See http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0408/05/ip.01.html
Furthermore, some pundit somewhere--I'm searching for a reference--noted that in addition to impugning John Kerry's character as a liar, so also does this ad impugn the characters of the men who served with John Kerry. The ad by proxy of doubting Kerry also doubts the men who served with Kerry. Additionally, there is the tale told by Jim Rassman. We can say what we want about Kerry being a politician, but if Rassman says Kerry saved his life, I'm inclined to believe it.
This strategy could end up backfiring, and calling attention back to Bush's service record. And heaven knows, that's the last thing the GOP or the Bush/Cheney campaign want.
____________________
• Transcript. "After Hours." MSNBC, August 5, 2004. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5621606/
See Also
• Transcript. "Judy Woodruff's Inside Politics." CNN, August 5, 2004. See http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0408/05/ip.01.html
Pangloss said:
Indeed many intelligent (thats a comparative term) republicans are distancing themselves from this crap. McCain, Bush, etc have all come out against this ad. These people are shooting themselves in the foot for my opinion.
Lets compare that to ole spoiled silver spoon that choose to dodge active service and may or may not have actually been AWOL part of that. Certainly he took duty time to participate in politics. That is part of the public record.
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That was not the doctor on record who actually treated Kerry. They are LIERS.
What’s really pathetic about all this is that since they are calling Kerry a liar they are also calling all the members of his crew liars as well. I don’t buy these ads because they are obviously not based on fact, they are based on 527 money. The same people who funded this ad are the same people who funded the anti-McCain ads which attacked him personally as well in 2000 when he went up against Bush and sadly lost. Kerry and the Democrats this year aren’t going to allow the Republicans to smear them, or their campaign without a fight. McCain and even the Bush campaign have denounced the ad. Also the Bush team is smart enough to state that they will state nothing against Kerry’s service, because the more the GOP makes it an issue the more of a liability it becomes for them, it will then focus attention on Bush’s national guard service, and Cheney simply skipping the war altogether.
Gack. What a mess:
""This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency," Rassmann said. "Their new charges are false; their stories are fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in Vietnam."
From Rassman, whom I heard directly contradict that statement on O'Reilly last night. He said he didn't know if their charges were false, and appeared to know that the people DID serve with Kerry.
What a mess. I believe the doctor dude. He said the guy who signed the paper was one of his men, processing paperwork for him. He also said that the men were kind of giggling about it because it was an extremely minor injury that he had caused to himself. That injury did not deserve a Purple Heart.
As for the rest of the claims, I don't know what to think... as there are people who claim "facts" on both sides of the argument.
""This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency," Rassmann said. "Their new charges are false; their stories are fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in Vietnam."
From Rassman, whom I heard directly contradict that statement on O'Reilly last night. He said he didn't know if their charges were false, and appeared to know that the people DID serve with Kerry.
What a mess. I believe the doctor dude. He said the guy who signed the paper was one of his men, processing paperwork for him. He also said that the men were kind of giggling about it because it was an extremely minor injury that he had caused to himself. That injury did not deserve a Purple Heart.
As for the rest of the claims, I don't know what to think... as there are people who claim "facts" on both sides of the argument.
That's all the GOP was hoping for... to cause confusion. Legend has it that Lyndon Johnson, while engaged in a particularly hard fought political battle early in his career, directed an aide to put out the word that his opponent fucked pigs. Aghast, the aide replied, "But...but...you know that's not true!"
Lyndon continued, "You know it. I know it. But, let's make the sumbitch DENY it!"
It seems to me that both sides utilize similar methods.
Such an act is not representative of one's political affiliation, rather it's representative of lacking character. I've seen plenty of folks on both sides of the fence that seem devoid of it... not to mention the agendas of those who present us with information.
Such an act is not representative of one's political affiliation, rather it's representative of lacking character. I've seen plenty of folks on both sides of the fence that seem devoid of it... not to mention the agendas of those who present us with information.
shrubby pegasus
Registered Senior Member
kerry victory
i was just curious if there was anyone else out there who really thinks kerry will win by a significant margin november.
i was just curious if there was anyone else out there who really thinks kerry will win by a significant margin november.
nbachris2788
Registered Senior Member
I'm hearing stuff about how 2004 will be like the 1980 election, where down the homestretch, the undecideds broke in huge waves for Reagan instead of Carter. About 45% of America want Bush, and 45% want Kerry. There are 10% of the undecided. They have already seen 4 years of Bush rule, and if they're undecided after that, they are probably more likely to jump into the Kerry camp than Bush's. What Kerry has to do is gradually win them over. It will probably not happen with one speech or one state visit, but as he cultivates his message, and attacks Bush's, he will strengthen his appeal with the swing voters.
The only elections that matter are those in swing states, principally Florida, Ohio, and Michigan. Kerry has a lead in all three states and hopefully he can keep that up. With the US economy slowing down rather significantly over the past couple of months and with Iraq potentially ready to explode again Kerry can win.