Bashing republican\democrats thread

ElectricFetus

ElectricFetus

Sanity going, going, gone
Valued Senior Member
Ok i posted this near the end of the thread but for those who read this here i go again:p

Politics is getting cloged up again with "Bush\republican suck, no the democrates suck" threads so i have resurected this sticky and from now on i am dumping all these types of threads here. If a thread is about half decent posts and half of this type then i will split it but if its just a few posts in a thread then i will just delete them (sorry i dont have unlimited time to split a thread, select a few posts and then merge it with this one).

If thats the only point of your thread then PLEASE do me a favor a just post it here
 
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Everything about Bush & Kerry Bashing, Thread!

i've posted this in 2 threads already but people haven't noticed or conveniently ignored it.

so here it is: Vietnam veterans who fought along side Kerry condemn him as a liar, unfit to lead, when the tough gets going him crawling under a rock, etc. etc.

make sure that you read the titles of who the speakers are.

maybe Kerry shouldn't have opened that Pandora's box... waving around his Vietnam service is not such a good idea if his service was a sham.

this video is a few days old. but give it a week or 2 and it'll reach the mainstream.
do you think Hanoi John's Vietnam record will be a liability or an asset?

i think this ad was run on CNN or other TV networks his ratings would drop by a coupla points at least. let's see how truly unbiased the networks are
 
Kerry has disgraced the US Navy by going against all the three core values of the US Navy: Honor, Commitment and Courage.

Many choose to ignore this because it is the truth and it reminds me of the famous movie quote that some people "...can't handle the truth!"

I can imagine Fox to air this but it will totally be quite a surprise for me if CNN will ever even mention this.

Thank you for the link, it is good stuff!
 
These attacks on Kerry's war record are just disgraceful and so obviously partisan that they can be discounted on face. Truth my ass. The guy volunteered for river boat duty, some of the most hazardous duty in Vietnam, and even if he hadn't won three purple hearts and three medals (I think?) he'd still be a hero.

The proof is the fact that if he weren't running for office there's not a Republican voter in this country who wouldn't stop to salute this man on the street and thank him for his service to the country.

Unbelievable. Frankly I'm downright embarassed to be a Bush supporter when I see crap like this.
 
Is this what you are refering to? :
John Edwards: "If you have any question about what John Kerry is made of, just spend 3 minutes with the men who served with him."

Al French: "I served with John Kerry."

Bob Elder: "I served with John Kerry."

George Elliott: "John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."

Al French: "He is lying about his record."

Louis Letson: "I know John Kerry is lying about his first Purple Heart because I treated him for that injury."

Van O'Dell: "John Kerry lied to get his bronze star ... I know, I was there, I saw what happened."

Jack Chenoweth: "His account of what happened and what actually happened are the difference between night and day."

Admiral Hoffman: "John Kerry has not been honest."

Adrian Lonsdale: "And he lacks the capacity to lead."

Larry Thurlow: "When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry."

Bob Elder: "John Kerry is no war hero."

Grant Hibbard: "He betrayed all his shipmates ... he lied before the Senate."

Shelton White: "John Kerry betrayed the men and women he served with in Vietnam."

Joe Ponder: "He dishonored his country ... he most certainly did."

Bob Hildreth: "I served with John Kerry ...

Bob Hildreth (off-camera): John Kerry cannot be trusted."

Announcer: "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is responsible for the content of this advertisement."
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Weak, guys, really weak. How did he lie? What was his first injury that it didn't deserve a purple heart? What exactly was the lie that resulted in his getting a bronze star? What was the difference between Kerry's account and what actually happened? To serve your country and then speak up about the horrors that occurred in the great mistake called Vietnam is the height of patriotism, in my opinion.

Shall we talk about George W. Bush, and the strings his daddy pulled to get him a cushy situation in the National Guard, from which he was AWOL, instead getting high on coke, and driving around drunk?
 
i just don't understand why someone's Vietnam record is such a big deal. Clinton didn't serve a day in the army and he was elected to be a president. why is it all of a sudden the issue?

it's irrelevant who served where. does every cover CIA operative deserve a shot at the presidency just cause he pulled some Rambo shit?

the point is that Kerry shouldn't wave his dick around when it comes to Vietnam.

These attacks on Kerry's war record are just disgraceful and so obviously partisan that they can be discounted on face.
the veterans that support him are also partisan. by the way, i think that hearing Kerry's former commanding officer or commander telling you straight up that "Kerry is not fit to lead" has some value in it.

The guy volunteered for river boat duty
the term "semi-volunteered" is often used when describing Kerry's army service. i'm not sure what that means but at least i'm sure it wasn't completely Pat Tillman type of volunteering. partially it was a draft

he'd still be a hero
a hero is someone who went above and beyond. he did a typical tour of duty. if he saved these 2 men from enemy fire or whatever then he is a hero.. but if he just pulled them out of the river that's no heroism. that's the bare minimum a soldier should do.

The proof is the fact that if he weren't running for office there's not a Republican voter in this country who wouldn't stop to salute this man on the street and thank him for his service to the country.
the way he slandered all the soldiers as war criminals and practically destroyed the morale of the entire US army?
i'd spit on him if i was a Vietnam vet.
 
otheadp said:
the way he slandered all the soldiers as war criminals and practically destroyed the morale of the entire US army?
i'd spit on him if i was a Vietnam vet.
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Single handedly destroyed the morale of the U.S.Army? I think a quick study of the Vietnam conflict would show the U.S. government was far more responsible. Surely you overestimate his impact.

I'd like to see proof that he portrayed all of our soldiers as criminals.
 
it's public record.
additionally, when Vietnam vets came home from their tours of duty they were spat on for being "baby killers", without any investigation whether they personally committed any "war crimes".
whether he said "every single soldier did it" or not, the effect was devastating regardless. any soldier was considered by the masses a war criminal upon return.

it's of course arguable who was more responsible, but he did have a huge impact.
 
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You're the one claiming he said it. I'd like a reference, or a link to one.

I've heard the spit in the face stories as well. It appears they may just be urban legends.

NEW YORK--A haunted young man whose face bears too many lines for his years, jetlagged and limping from a wound sustained in the defense of his country half a world away, emerges from a jetway at San Francisco International Airport. A woman about the same age awaits in the terminal. A peace-sign necklace hanging above a loose floral-print dress billowing about her unshaven legs, the hippie chick scornfully scans his uniform, spits in his face and screams: "Baby killer!" The veteran scans the crowd for support, but sees only contempt in the faces of passersby.

It's a powerful, tragic cliché of the Vietnam era, dramatized in the "Rambo" movies, and a cautionary tale for today's antiwar left. But according to Holy Cross College professor Jerry Lembcke, a Vietnam vet and author of "The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam," it never happened.

"If you go back and look at the historical record, like I did--newspaper accounts, police records, and also just things historians have written," says Lembcke, "you don't find any record or any evidence that these things happened--or even that they were being claimed as happening--in the late '60s and early '70s." There isn't even one letter written by a soldier at the time referencing such an incident.
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http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/?uc_full_date=20040713

Did Kerry claim to have witnessed anything even close to as bad as the Mei Lai massacre? Now there was an incident that tarred the Army as baby killers.
 
Actually it is now being considered as urban legend that Vietnam Vets were ever spat upon...

http://slate.msn.com/id/1005224

Did you ever consider why you have never seen a video of this, or heard a vet talk about it?

As far as Kerry is concerned, I have heard one vet say he pulled two men out of the water during enemy fire, another claim that he swam across a river to kill an already injured Vietnamese soldier. I simply do not know what to believe, because I am hearing so many contradictory statements.
 
otheadp, are you voting for Bush? Because you know Ashcroft will crack down on your pot, there are already hints of this, a report that came out about how it's so much stronger now so it should be taken more seriously...and Tommy Chong is in prison for selling bongs! Everybody sells goddamn bongs, WTF! And Bush's talent for pissing off the Arabs is NOT going to help Israel at all...
 
otheadp said:
i just don't understand why someone's Vietnam record is such a big deal. Clinton didn't serve a day in the army and he was elected to be a president. why is it all of a sudden the issue?
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I agree. Why are you making it the issue?


These attacks on Kerry's war record are just disgraceful and so obviously partisan that they can be discounted on face.
the veterans that support him are also partisan. by the way, i think that hearing Kerry's former commanding officer or commander telling you straight up that "Kerry is not fit to lead" has some value in it.
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Of course they have points of view -- they're human beings. I even agree with your last sentence above, that the commander's statement "has some value". Some. The world is gray, not black and white.

But most of the individuals who were there with him confirm his service and his valor. The story about the boats coming under fire, beaching the boat and running on shore to take out the attacker is one of the most dramatic stories I've ever heard from that theater. And I've heard a lot of them. There is something visceral, human, integral, immediate and absolutely horrifying about that story. If that's not an act of valor, I don't know what is.


he'd still be a hero
a hero is someone who went above and beyond. he did a typical tour of duty. if he saved these 2 men from enemy fire or whatever then he is a hero.. but if he just pulled them out of the river that's no heroism. that's the bare minimum a soldier should do.
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I meant that as a statement of opinion, not objective fact. In my book they're all heros, whatever they did over there. But in my opinion you're very, very wrong in your assessment of Kerry's actions in pulling two men out of the river. NOTHING that ANYBODY ever does under fire is "the bare minimum", and they were ALWAYS in somebody's crosshairs on that river.


I just don't think you have any idea how much this weakens your pro-Bush stance. The whole line of reasoning is just pattently ridiculous.
 
The whole line of reasoning is just pattently ridiculous.

Don’t be surprised….

As relating to the Kerry, Vietnam scenario what makes his situation rather unique is that he did not have to go. How many Yale grads and members of Skull and Bones went to Vietnam voluntarily? I’d vouch not much, we know that Bush didn’t, we know that Cheney and Clinton avoided going as well. Kerry as an American citizen has every right to criticize a war that was ethically, materially, and strategically wrong. It’s easy for us to say “he’s a bastard who threatened the entire US military” without understanding that he knew what was happening in Vietnam first hand. Aren’t we supposed to respect the veteran’s? Vietnam was his war, and he fought it unlike so many who now bitch, alas GWB. Kerry took one of the most dangerous jobs in the war, patrolling the Mekong Delta, with heavy foliage, with the Vietcong hiding in that foliage, and his job was to attract fire to his boat! Kerry’s record as a war veteran simply has no compare in this election.
 
are you voting for Bush?
if i was an American

Because you know Ashcroft will crack down on your pot
good. i hate weed. it's just a nickname, you know? ;)

Bush's talent for pissing off the Arabs is NOT going to help Israel at all...
i believe pissing them off is the right way to go... but that's not the topic here so we'll leave it to another thread

Why are you making it the issue?
i'm responding to it already being an issue. i don't think his record has much relevance since there are other army officers who had done more heroic deeds yet they are unfit to lead a country

But most of the individuals who were there with him confirm his service and his valor.
i heard it's the other way around. in addition, there's enough evidence against Kerry for a 250 page book
also, check out what googling for "Vietnam vets for kerry" has produced. not a single pro-Kerry website.
looks like many veterans simply hate his guts

now, if he is such a hero, why does the doctor who treated Kerry, Kerry's commanding officer(s) and fellow soldiers, at least 2-dozen of them are calling him a liar? do you think all of them just have a "political agenda"?

and it's still besides the point - his military record could be the best of all time - it doesn't matter. what matters is he can be a good president.
it's like saying "well, i'm the fastest runner in the class, therefore i will ace my math exam"
what's one thing got to do with the other?

finally, i'll repeat what i've already written and been quoted on :
"if he saved these 2 men from enemy fire or whatever then he is a hero.. but if he just pulled them out of the river that's no heroism. that's the bare minimum a soldier should do"
 
and it's still besides the point - his military record could be the best of all time - it doesn't matter. what matters is he can be a good president.

Is this a serious criticism? JFK went through this military experience in a small patrol boat in the Pacific war, and that is regarded as one of the most heroic, and most influential things that JFK has ever done (Does anyone feel that the JFK, and JFK has a lot in common, because I do?). What do you think “commander and chief” connotates? Although it is true that really it doesn’t prove his campaign promises, what it shows is his personal valor, and tenacity . He has proven in Vietnam that in a war situation he takes charge that cannot be said for Bush. Kerry’s war experience is a valid, and relevant point that he can make. If Bush had the same experience you wouldn’t be complaining, and this would be exploited as well. The man can say “I saved lives, and protected America”, something reserved for very few people.
 
Sorry, quoting partisan sources doesn't cut it with me. What won me over to considering Kerry's war record to be valid are the non-partisan sources, such as the medals and awards he received, the duty he chose. Some of the more moderate testimony on both sides has some value to me, but that's about it.

Spinning an issue in a partisan fashion is like sleeping with pigs. This smells to hog heaven. Feel free to have the last word.

By the way, Undecided and Tiassa, I hope you took note of how I responded to this.
 
Feel free to have the last word.
i most certainly will, thank you.

i've asked a question: now, if he is such a hero, why does the doctor who treated Kerry, Kerry's commanding officer(s) and fellow soldiers, at least 2-dozen of them are calling him a liar? do you think all of them just have a "political agenda"?

and you've answered: What won me over to considering Kerry's war record to be valid are the non-partisan sources.

i don't know. am i that "partisan" that i can't look at it objectively?

there are many groups of vets out there against Kerry, they simply hate him for his testimonies. they've probably never met him even. but here you have his doctor, his comrades, his commanding officers... are they partisan?
 
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