Audio frequency 2 -- 5 Hz

ismu

::phenomenon::.
Registered Senior Member
Did someone ever heard that audio frequency below 20 Hz, specially 2 up to 5 Hz can speed up brain wave into "trance" state? Some reports shows that caves has used to meditate ancient shamans have resonance in low frequency.

I think it can be used to dig info from below-consciousness mind.

I like to hear any information according to this thing. Thank's.
 
I have tried that on myself and a few of the band members/friends while setting up the amps etc in a large building. Could not notice any difference. Normally, we were wired anyway - so how can you tell? May be we should have tried on someone lazy/brain dead.

I did notice my creative ideas going up after a jam session of acoustic instruments. Does not work on a recording (the lows are filtered out). May be there is something to it.

Musics like "sun drumming" by medwyn goodall and similar types may help.
 
The effect can felt after several tenth minutes, not suddenly. I also read somwhere before else that low frequency with enough amplitudo can make people feel inconvenient.

My first post was based on Discovery Channel show i saw on TV. But their report not satisfied me enough, yet.
 
Originally posted by ismu
Did someone ever heard that audio frequency below 20 Hz, specially 2 up to 5 Hz can speed up brain wave into "trance" state? Some reports shows that caves has used to meditate ancient shamans have resonance in low frequency.

I think it can be used to dig info from below-consciousness mind.

I like to hear any information according to this thing. Thank's.

What amplitude?
 
Amplitudo. Strength of waves. Audio strength common scale is dB.
 
Originally posted by ismu
Amplitudo. Strength of waves. Audio strength common scale is dB.

NO I am not asking for the definition of amplitude. I am not 5 years old. I am asking for what amplitudes are those experiments running at according to your reports.
 
Originally posted by Joeman
NO I am not asking for the definition of amplitude. I am not 5 years old.

So, ask more precisely, like now.

I am asking for what amplitudes are those experiments running at according to your reports.

I'm not sure, perhaps simple sine wave. It was produced by air resonance in pipe.

But hey, I'm who supposed to ask here. I need more info from someone who knew about this. I almost forgot about these stuffs, until I saw the Discovery Channel I mentioned aove.
 
The reason I ask is I can try it on myself in the acoustic lab at work and let you know what happens tomorrow.
 
Originally posted by Joeman
The reason I ask is I can try it on myself in the acoustic lab at work and let you know what happens tomorrow.

:eek: Thank you Joeman.

I think, if you have devices on your lab, you can try other waves than sine, such as square or saw-tooth, or else. You can also try it on several frequency (2 up to 15 Hz). But it must be "loud" enough, for sure.

I'm waiting your results. Thanks.
 
Originally posted by ismu


:eek: Thank you Joeman.

I think, if you have devices on your lab, you can try other waves than sine, such as square or saw-tooth, or else. You can also try it on several frequency (2 up to 15 Hz). But it must be "loud" enough, for sure.

I'm waiting your results. Thanks.

Hey I spoke to an acoustic engineer in my company. He is a few interesting things to say.

First of all he said low frequency sound in the range you described can make you sick. A lot of people get sick at work and can't figure out why. It turns out they get sick from fans in air-conditioner vibrating at these frequency. Animals often are disturbed before a big earthquake because of the prior low frequency vibration before the big event. In movies low frequency sound is mixed in during tense moments to make you nervous. In general low frequency sound is unpleasant.

Here is another possible explaination he gave me. There are 3 major regions in human brainwave spectrum - Alpha, Beta, and Gamma. When monks meditate (and very good at it ), almost all the brainwave activity is in alpha region. Maybe the instrument the shaman uses is resonant at alpha region plus there are also frequency content in beta and gamma region wich acts as a wide band noise that scrambles the brainwave activity in these regions and therefore help meditating. Am I making sense or no?
 
First of all, the brain considers any sensory input as data to be translated and the meaning is used. A pure sine wave or square wave does not have any meaning (no real data). So the neuron firing threshold will increase to filter out the stupid noise. If you increase the dB level, the body can not filter it out. It will make you sick.

The idea that an external signal can synch with your brain pattern in alpha region is a mistaken idea from the pace maker process. In case of the heart, there is a specific single signal that is used to control heart rythm. The alpha pattern in the brain is not a specific , single thread activity. It is more like your computer is running idle and no major activity among thousands is being performed in a multitasking environment.

Experience suggests that certain music has specific actions on certain part of the brain, which auguments the processing nature of the brain with the right neuro transmitters (that has the calming effect). Under these scenarios, the stress related hyper threads are reduced in activity and hence, body's real repair process can continue....
 
It's incredible Joeman :eek: and very make sense. I think we got something here.

I knew abot brain waves you mentioned. I've ever learn telepathy once. In my learnt was, I believe (but not proven, yet) that consciousness "cover up" our sensitiveness to receive "wild signals". I was able to make people "think" he/she feel itchy on some part of his/her body. I believe (also not proven, yet) that people's thought spread onto universe as "wild signals" and independence from space (and perhaps time).

What kmguru said that when our brain in alpha region our brain do almost no activity. Alpha state also found when we're sleeping or daydreaming. That's why sensitiveness increasing.

Those who in deep meditation or sleep lost their consciousness which shieds up their mind from "telepathic attack". This signal can be sent by experienced telepathist, or came from "wild signals" from any other people's thought. It IS easier for telepathist to "attack" people when they're sleep or daydreaming, while not much activity being processed in target brain.

A clairvoyant (or shamans) still maintain a little bit consciousness. But not too much to keep him sensitive, so he can recive and interprete thought from distance and from future.

It seems that alpha state is a key to explore metapsychology phenomenon. And we can reach it by using low freq audio and let some consciousnes to take control.

Allas, these are just my unproven hypothesis. I like to discuss more about this. Show my some flaw, show your hypothesis. Let's proove it and make a theory.

Btw, Joeman, did you got conclusion in what frequency and wich wave-form give fastest/strongest result? How much minimum dB required to do this?

Again, many thank's to you Joeman.
 
Alright, I got some fuel for your fire that you'll find to be very interesting.

The brainwaves that you guys are talking about are Theta waves, which are defined as being between 3 1/2 and 7 1/2 hz. Alpha waves are a bit higher in frequency - 8 to 12 hz.
Jumping around a bit now.

In REM sleep (dream sleep) the brain is very active, often times producing bouts of beta wave, which have an even higher frequency than alpha (beta waves appear when the brain is at work in waking state). But also within REM sleep Theta waves appear, originating from the Hippocampus - the structure in the brain thought to mediate long term memory.

It is widely thought (with supporting evidence of course) that the main purposes of REM sleep is learning. During REM the brain integrates info learned throughout the day with older stores of info. There's a good chance that this is why many elements from your past occur in dreams of present situations.

Within the hippocampus, if a neuron is fired in rapid succession the syapses that are excited become "strengthened", meaning that they can more readily cause the receiving neuron to fire. This is thought to mediate memory (also see Memory thread in Human Sciences forum), the more times the neuron is stimulated the more it is strengthened. However, the syapses will only be strenthened if it is excited after a certain interval after the receiving neuron just fired. This interval is the same as a Theta wave.

So the theory is Theta waves are produced by the hippocampus to mediate the strengthening of synapses, which make those neurons more readily fireable. Certain neurons (or clusters of) are assigned to certain memories and their "info" is recalled better (due to strengthening of associated neurons) if they are stimulated one theta wave after there last action potential(s). And long-term memory is needed for learning (this is pretty obvious).

So maybe these low frequencies you are talking about radiate into the brain and facilitate the integration of new info (learning) while one is awake. Basically doing what the hippocampus does while in REM sleep - radiate Theta waves, providing a timer for synapse strengthening - learning. You could maybe make a leap and say that these waves are inducing an pseudo-REM-like state in waking life.


First of all, the brain considers any sensory input as data to be translated and the meaning is used. A pure sine wave or square wave does not have any meaning (no real data). So the neuron firing threshold will increase to filter out the stupid noise.

It's true that the brain filters out stimuli that are meaningless but Theta waves are very low frequency waves and can travel right through your skull - they don't need to be picked up by the ears. As stated above, they could possibly affect the brain at a neuron to neuron level. What you are talking about is at a data/information level.

First of all he said low frequency sound in the range you described can make you sick.

I've heard this too and it's probably true. I wonder what range exactly is the "sickness range". Theta waves are very specific (3 1/2 to 7 1/2). Also, the body likes balance, homeostasis. For the body, there's always too much of a good thing. So I'm guessing that too much of these Theta waves may not be productive. There must be a "reason" why Theta waves only occur at certain times, such as sleep.

I would say being exposed to Theta waves while meditating would be a good thing. I would say that some person who straps a Theta generator to his/her head to try and "learn more" may be going to far and causing more damage than anything.

If any of this needs clarification please ask away. I'm moving things the next few days though, so I may not be able to get back to you right away.

hope this helps,
-Xenu
 
Brainwave Technology

I believe the frequencies you are refering to (2-5Hz) are in the DELTA range. BETA waves occur most substantially during our "waking state". ALPHA waves are prominent during deep relaxation/meditation. THETA waves are highly visualistic (hypnagogic) states of relaxation and finally DELTA waves which are deeper states of sleep/relaxation.

These frequencies (ALPHA-DELTA, primarily to achieve altered states of consciousness) use the principle of brainwave entrainment to synchronize a persons brainwaves to specific frequencies. This principle is based on the "vibrato effect".
If you take a pair of headphones and in one ear play a tone at 100Hz while in the other ear a tone of 75Hz is played, the result is a "phantom" tone that is the difference between the two original tones. It sounds like a warbling tone, a pulse, or pulsing beat. In this case the synthesisied by-product beat is 25Hz. This "phantom" tone is produced by the brain (refered to as the vibrato effect). The brain respondes to these split-ear tones by becoming entrained, synchronizing both hemispheres of the brain to this newly developed pulse. One can alter their brainwaves to specific frequencies (much like monks, yogis, shamans etc. during states of meditation?).

There are many technological devices used for manipulating brainwaves, also CDs which incorporate subliminal brainwave frequencies.

To learn more I have encluded some site for you to visit:

http://www.brainwave-entrainment.com/
www.zoe7.com
http://www.altered-state.com (click "Main" site)
http://www.elixa.com/index.html

I have more info if you are interested,
bodhisattva
blood_gallery@msn.com
 
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Oops!

I made a mistake on the above post. To clear it up I add this:

BETA....18-35Hz. (Awake and alert)
ALPHA....8-12Hz. (Relaxed)
THETA....4-7Hz. (Hypnagogic imagery and reverie, near sleep)
DELTA....0.5-3Hz. (Sleep)

So you are refering to THETA and DELTA states. Sorry for the mix-up. Any questions contact me and I can answer them for you or get you in touch with someone who can.

Peace, Pot & Microdot,
bodhisattva
blood_gallery@msn.com
 
Most music are in Beta wave. That is the bass drum.

The commercial CDs use higher frequencies modulated on low hertz such as alpha , theta or delta. I used one but could not tell much difference from a music that you like to relax in.

I use Andreas Vollenweider (White Winds) CD to relax. It's harmonics match the brain pattern I have...I think...
 
BETA....18-35Hz. (Awake and alert)
ALPHA....8-12Hz. (Relaxed)
THETA....4-7Hz. (Hypnagogic imagery and reverie, near sleep)
DELTA....0.5-3Hz. (Sleep)

Would like to add...

Beta - Yes, is when a part of the brain is actively being used when awake, but Beta waves happen when in REM sleep too.

Alpha - when awake and not actively being used, but also occurs at the beginnings of sleep and possibly in small amounts during sleep (spindles?)

Theta - Happen in the middle of sleep, not so much near sleep. I've also heard they appear during REM sleep. They are radiated by the hypothalamus (which is known to mediate long term memory).

Delta - Happen only in deep sleep, mainly in Stage 4 sleep (right before the REM cycle), less than 50% occurence in Stage 3 sleep.
 
Brainwave Technology

All four of these frequencies are active at any given time, some more so than others. Thus in deep states of relaxation or sleep, BETA waves are present but almost nonexistent.
If one were to hook up to an EEG during various states of consciousness (OBE's, NDE's, Lucid Dreaming, Remote Viewing, Waking State, etc.) a specific picture of the brain activity would appear. This brainwave activity could then be mimiced and fed back to the person, or to others. This is what the Hemi-Sync and other brainwave entrainment CD's are going after.
Scientists have hooked up monks, yogis, shamans, etc. to these EEG machines and recorded the results, which are used to aid others in achieving such states of consciousness and higher awareness that these individuals reach through meditation, prayer and hypnosis.

Great book on this subject:

"Into The Void" by Zoe7
http://www.zoe7.com

Follow Your Bliss,
-Bodhisattva
 
Most music are in Beta wave. That is the bass drum.

The commercial CDs use higher frequencies modulated on low hertz such as alpha , theta or delta. I used one but could not tell much difference from a music that you like to relax in.

Most of the time when audio engineers mix an album they do what's called "roll-off" the low end. What this means is that amplitudes of waves beneath about 60hz are basically dropped off. So frequencies as low as 35 hz, no longer are there or just really low (depending on the slope). They do this because these frequencies aren't really heard but felt, and their rumbleness can interfere and make the recording more muddy. So generally, most music (professionally done at least) doesn't have frequencies even in the beta range.

Even if it was recorded to with these frequencies, most speakers wouldn't even be able to produce them. For instance, a lot of standard stereo speakers (even good ones) don't even go below 40 or 50 hz. Audio recording monitors will generally go below this however. For instance, the ones that I have go down to 20hz, which is just the beta range. If you have a decent commercial subwoofer you can get below the 40-50hz range but even the good ones don't go below 20 hz. Actually I haven't seen any speaker specifications go below 15 hz.

So if these relaxation cds say they work by using alpha, theta, or delta frequencies, it's probably a sham because geneally most people's speaker responses don't even go below 40 hz. At least 99% of people's speakers (maybe all?) don't go below 20 hz.
 
All four of these frequencies are active at any given time, some more so than others.

Yes you are correct! I was trying to point out when the times they are most prevalent.
 
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