Attention PM - Islam & Flexibility

[Siddhartha]

Vienna, I can't believe you missed the point in my two posts completely. No offence though, I just thought they were clear. For the first post I was making a rather clear observation of my own. Coming once from a rather zealous Christian background, I was able to see and reflect upon the great many people in Britain calling themselves Christian but not in any way acting like the Bible tells them a Christian should, hence the statement "seem to pick and choose". The second statement was a rebuttal of what someone else had said. They made a terrible logical oversight by attempting to define a typical Muslim and indeed all of Islam by the actions of one person they once knew who called himself a Muslim. Anyone knows you don't judge the opinion of even a small town on the sayso of one person, never mind a world spanning religion. I made a light remark about Allah after the phrase "No man is an island, unless his name is Madagascar" came into my mind. Who knows where from. I don't know, maybe you've had genuinely bad experiences with Islam yourself (I take it you're from Leeds/Bradford area?) and so it may be understandable that you feel some contempt toward them. I however have had nothing but pleasant experiences with Muslims (save perhaps the zealous Mr PM from this here site, but that's another matter ) so who is to say which of us is right, or which of us genuinely knows Islam? I just think you shouldn't condemn an entire nation, every man woman and child of Islam based on your own difficult experiences. I've been hurt by a string of women, but you think I wouldn't ever get into a relationship again? Of course I would, because I know that the woman in question is not somebody who hurt me before, so why should I judge her for the mistakes of others? I seem to be going on a bit here, but could you maybe PM me or something and just let me know why/when you started disliking Muslims? Oh, and for the record, I'm not Muslim.


P.S. - I hope I managed to explain myself and "So you have a set rules to judge Christians and another set to judge muslims - how very Islamic, true to the core." doesn't apply any more?

 

[everneo]

Agreed, but please remember that Omar was in no way attempting to change the religion with his Fatwa. Omar was merely establishing order and civil rule for his State. Afterall, Omar was head of state and entrusted with State affairs.

Omar as a leader of the State was not trying to change or refine Islam, he was merely establishing a civil constitution that is subject to change or even elimination if another civil ruler deems it necessary.

Islam is indeed flexible.

Umar was not trying to change or refine Islam, i agree. But remember also the fact what was OK for the prophet found to be not suitable in the eyes of Umar. In this case, as a third person, i would agree with Umar's perspective of prohibiting mutah. As for the punishment for drinking, the punishment was prescribed extra-quranically, in line with similar crimes/sins like calumny as aptly compared by the wise Ali. I find this punishment reasonable than leaving the sin of drinking along with sin of lying as just banned malpractices. Strict enforcement thro' penalty would be more beneficial to the society and act as deterrant. These fatwas are not mere law enforcement but prevent muslims from "drinking and whorring" (not my words) and slip away from their path. They certainly benefitted muslims.

 

[Flores]

These fatwas are not mere law enforcement but prevent muslims from "drinking and whorring" (not my words) and slip away from their path. They certainly benefitted muslims.

I still think that invisible strings are better and more effective than strict laws. Education and alternatives are always the best way to stop evil. For example, without any strict laws, Americans are stopping smoking due to health education while the middle east is acting as a chimney despite of the zillionth Fatwas that smoking is wrong. Fatwas are not effective...education is.

 

[Vienna]

Vienna, I can't believe you missed the point in my two posts completely. No offence though,

I can't believe you missed mine, take it anyway you want.

I don't know, maybe you've had genuinely bad experiences with Islam yourself (I take it you're from Leeds/Bradford area?)

Could be Leeds or Bradford might be Halifax or Huddersfield, Maybe its Manchester or Oldham, Blackburn or Bolton. Maybe its Derby or Liecester or Coventry or Warwick, possibly Birmingham or Wolverhampton, or shall we go for the capital London. Tell you what, lets make it anywhere in the UK you will find that the ethnic minority are NOT minor at all.

I just think you shouldn't condemn an entire nation, every man woman and child of Islam based on your own difficult experiences.

I don't just base everything on personal issues, it is also based on political, religious, peace and terrorism issues. I even see terrorism ideas endorsed here on the internet by Islamic morons.

It is also becoming harder to accept muslims through British governments political correctness and its biased fondness and affection for the ethnic minority and Islam, our leaders are cleverly predujiced against the British whites. For example; it is against the law to fly the English flag in England if the ethnic minority find it offensive. etc, etc,etc. Many issues affect my opinion of Islam and muslims and people like PMT just confirm it. I can go on forever with examples but I'm sure you will be pleased if I just stop now.

I'm not Muslim.

Good choice, you have sense.

P.S. - I hope I managed to explain myself

Yes you have - and so have I.

 

[everneo]

I still think that invisible strings are better and more effective than strict laws. Education and alternatives are always the best way to stop evil. For example, without any strict laws, Americans are stopping smoking due to health education while the middle east is acting as a chimney despite of the zillionth Fatwas that smoking is wrong. Fatwas are not effective...education is.

Flores, millions of fatwas and years of education could be totally ineffective in case of some 'muslims' like our 'shield of Islam'. Jihad for jihad's sake, even its against Allah Almighty himself.

 

[everneo]

Are fatwa's being used to justify criminal, anti-social behavior? Obviously, yes. But is this practice at an all time high in the history of Islam? I don't know my Islamic history well enough to answer that with certainty.

What I can say for certain is this: Through the use of mass communication via TV and internet, fatwa's have the capability to reach a larger audience faster than ever before, and that makes the misuse of them potentially more dangerous than at any point previous to the present.

Yes, in this information age fatwas reach out far and wide and fast. But the irony is, the fatwas issued by some fundies to carry out their fancies are more powerful among freelance jehadis and shields than the fatwas issued by some learned and level headed theologists/scholars to avoid unwanted clashes or to encourage kind and generous practices among muslims.

 

[otheadp]

what if 2 fatwas contradict each other?
what would a good muslim do to not be considered an infidel?

 

[everneo]

So far it seems, good muslims tend to ignore both afraid of being called as infidel. The day those good muslims come forward daring to reject harmful fatwa and hail the right one Islam would be freed from its crucifix.

May be good muslims here might answer your question better.