Athiests please help!!!

[42!]

Contrary to some posts here, Atheism is not just another religious belief or faith. It is the absense of such beliefs. As the name implies, "a-theism" is the opposite of "theism." Atheism requires no beliefs, there is no church, no services to attend, no dogma or superstition, and we do not ask for your money.

Agnostics cowardly hedge their bets...

: P

 

[killslay]

i take the AJ Ayer approach, i don't question it, i'll find out when i die

 

[Sarkus]

Jan Ardena, your entire arguments stem from a logical fallacy of an appeal to authority.
You spend most of your threads saying "Well, Enstein / Newton said this, and they're scientists, so it must be okay because they follow the scientific method and have reached this conclusion."

It's a classic "Appeal to Authority" fallacy.

Don't quote someone else and then say "There, that is evidence enough."
Even if someone is an expert in the field, a quote is not evidence - it is merely noteworthy at best.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I found this simple story on another post. Although some of the other comments the person wrote were commented on, I found no one who commented on this simple story.

The point seems very simple...i'd like to hear any rebutles regarding the evidence of a creator.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you again

armyboyjay

[Here is something from a real scientist, Isaac Newton, that gets my attention.

He once asked a skilled mechanic to make him a miniature replica of our solar system, with balls representing the planets geared together by cogs and belts so as to move in harmony when cranked.

Later, Newton was visited by a scientist friend who, like you, did not believe in God. There conversation is related in the Minnesota Technologue (October 1957)

One day, as Newton sat reading in his study with his mechanism on a large table near him, his infidel friend stepped in. Scientist that he was, he recognized at a glance what was before him. Stepping up to it, he slowly turned the crank, and with undisguised admiration watched the heavenly bodies all move in their relative speed in their orbits. Standing off a few feet he exclaimed, What and exquisite thing this is! Who made it?’
Without looking up from his book, Newton answered, ‘Nobody!’
Quickly turning to Newton, the infidel said, ‘Evidently you did not understand my question. I asked who made this?’
Looking up now, Newton solemnly assured him that nobody made it, but the the aggregation of matter had just happened to assume the form it was in, and this is how the imitation solar system came to be.
But the astonished infidel replied with some heat, ‘You think that I am a fool! Of course somebody made it, and he is a genius, and I’d like to know who he is.’
Laying his book aside, Newton arose and laid his hand on his friends shoulder. ‘This thing is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose complex laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?’ ]

Everyone has pointed out some great flaws with this story already and
I just wanted to add one more observation. Natural process creates more
than people do. Process creates lakes, canyons, snow, rain, magma, and the
list goes on and on. That apple that left Newton a lump was created by
natural process and fell on his head because of natural process.

 

[scorpius]

I found this simple story on another post. Although some of the other comments the person wrote were commented on, I found no one who commented on this simple story.

The point seems very simple...i'd like to hear any rebutles regarding the evidence of a creator.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you again

armyboyjay

[Here is something from a real scientist, Isaac Newton, that gets my attention.

He once asked a skilled mechanic to make him a miniature replica of our solar system, with balls representing the planets geared together by cogs and belts so as to move in harmony when cranked.

Later, Newton was visited by a scientist friend who, like you, did not believe in God. There conversation is related in the Minnesota Technologue (October 1957)

One day, as Newton sat reading in his study with his mechanism on a large table near him, his infidel friend stepped in. Scientist that he was, he recognized at a glance what was before him. Stepping up to it, he slowly turned the crank, and with undisguised admiration watched the heavenly bodies all move in their relative speed in their orbits. Standing off a few feet he exclaimed, What and exquisite thing this is! Who made it?’
Without looking up from his book, Newton answered, ‘Nobody!’
Quickly turning to Newton, the infidel said, ‘Evidently you did not understand my question. I asked who made this?’
Looking up now, Newton solemnly assured him that nobody made it, but the the aggregation of matter had just happened to assume the form it was in, and this is how the imitation solar system came to be.
But the astonished infidel replied with some heat, ‘You think that I am a fool! Of course somebody made it, and he is a genius, and I’d like to know who he is.’
Laying his book aside, Newton arose and laid his hand on his friends shoulder. ‘This thing is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose complex laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?’ ]

Newton like all theists,
assumed that like some man made object designed/created by humans,
our universe must also have a designer.

problem is when you "assume" without having all the knowledge you'll most likely made an ass of u and...me

we can see the designer builder of man made things

and we can see natural forces that influence everything in the universe,

what we dont see is gods spirits and anything supernatural,and if it existed it would be part of nature anyway.

we also know matter cant be destroyed or created only changed so it probably always existed,which means you cant create something from nothing which means god is not needed..and universe probably always was

my guess is the only reason people wish for god to exist is to live forever in their heaven...thats why all the apologetics and justifications for his existence

 

[yank]

‘This thing is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose complex laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?’

first things first...
we were taught this in school...
"matter can neither be created nor be destroyed...
it can only be converted from one form to another"