Athesits are indeed HOPELESS people.

Green_World

Banned
Banned
The Atheist position is indeed hopeless .

The believer has hope. If there is a God and there is life after death then the believer wins. If there is no God or no life after death the believer loses nothing. On the other hand, the Atheist loses badly if he wakes up to discover himself in the afterlife. In sum, if there is no afterlife both the believer and the Atheist are safe. But if there is an afterlife then the Atheist loses. The only one who can possibly lose is the Atheist.

Now the Atheist can argue that if there is no afterlife then the believer has wasted his life in false hope. I can reply that Islam gives our lives order, meaning, balance, purpose, and direction. We have hope founded on clear facts and dependable revelation from Allah.

On the other hand, it is the Atheist who is wasting his life. His life has no purpose but temporary enjoyment. But such enjoyment is always tempered by nagging doubts about whether or not life is heading in the right direction. It is the believer who lives in quiet confidence that God's promise is true.

The key, then, is to remind the Atheist that he is the only one who stands to lose. Sure he may have questions, doubts, and objections to some of the details of Islam. But rather than waste a lot of time trying to answer for the details, bring the discussion back to the fundamentals. Is there a God? Is there an afterlife? Is the Atheist secure?

Even if the Atheist has doubts it is still reasonable for him to embrace Islam.

To illustrate this fact, consider this situation. You are told that there is a speed-trap set by police to catch speeders on a certain road. Even if you doubt the information you must still act as though you believe it. You will slow down just to be on the safe side. You feel no need to start arguing that the police would never do a thing like that, or that you drove there before and never got caught speeding. In a similar sense the Atheist can simply submit in Islam although he still has doubts. Rather than argue about what he doubts he should first get on the safe side and then investigate further.

The reasonable thing, then, is for the Atheist to accept Islam right away. If he will not take this reasonable position, then why should you argue with an unreasonable person?


I will remind the atheists that even if Islam is wrong you are still safe. But if Islam is right you are in deep trouble. To use an expression, the Atheist may well be up the creek without a paddle.
 
Was this written by a 6 year old child?

I'll tell you what.....when I am walking down the white tunnel....I will become a believer! And as I was always told...God forgives all....so its win win.
 
"If there is no God or no life after death the believer loses nothing."

except that he wasted his life with nonsense and failed to life the only life he ever had.
Sounds like a lose lose situation to me. No life while alive and no life after death.
 
Pascal's Wager is no more compelling when presented in some bastardized, Islamic form. Allah is a fairy-tale warranting no more belief than does Ba'al, YHWH, Sol Invictus, or Kali.
 
Green World

My own personal opinion, as one who does not believe in any gods at all, is that atheists and agnostics in general do indeed have hope.

It seems to me that a common theistic theme is "be good or bad things will happen to you in the afterlife". The problem with this is that people will be good not because they choose it freely, but because they fear the consequences of disobedience.

For those who do not believe in gods and an afterlife, and thus have no fera of such, the choice is completely free. With no fear of adverse consequences, with no force influencing my opinion, I have hope that people can improve, and that we humans can make the world a better place.

Which, to you, is better:
- Choosing to be good because you are threatened with damnation if you don't?
- Or choosing to be good because you really want to?
 
Originally posted by jusmeig

I'll tell you what.....when I am walking down the white tunnel....I will become a believer! And as I was always told...God forgives all....so its win win.
============================

God almighty DOES NOT forgive the most basic fact: believing in his existence.
 
Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
"If there is no God or no life after death the believer loses nothing."

except that he wasted his life with nonsense and failed to life the only life he ever had.
Sounds like a lose lose situation to me. No life while alive and no life after death.
==========================

I am a believer, I am NOT wasting my life with nonesense, I am very happy with my life.

It is you the unbeliever who will lose if there is (and there is) GOD.

I will remind the atheists that even if Islam is wrong you are still safe. But if Islam is right you are in deep trouble. To use an expression, the Atheist may well be up the creek without a paddle.
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
Pascal's Wager is no more compelling when presented in some bastardized, Islamic form. Allah is a fairy-tale warranting no more belief than does Ba'al, YHWH, Sol Invictus, or Kali.
======================================

When your WRONGER was alive he denied GOD and when he died God laughed and asked his angels: WHERE IS HE NOW ??
 
Re: Green World

Originally posted by Adam

Which, to you, is better:
- Choosing to be good because you are threatened with damnation if you don't?
- Or choosing to be good because you really want to?
===========================================

But wanting to be good is HUMAN nature, you dont need holy books to tell you to save injured man in the streets.

You dont rush to help people in trouble after car accedients because you were told to do so, you do it because it is part of your HUMAN NATURE.

The holy book encourage you to do good, supply you with the OIL that push the good side of you.
 
Greenworld, here is a list of the top 22 of 4200 religions (source: http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html).

Why is Christianity the right one? What's wrong with all the other relgions? Will the majority of the world's population burn in hell for not being christian, yet they firmly believe that all the others will burn in hell. Funny really. Man needs to put a reason behind his existance/life/death and this is what thousends of cultures the world over come up with the same fairytale.

Christianity: 2 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million
Buddhism: 360 million
Chinese traditional religion: 225 million
primal-indigenous: 150 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 14 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 6 million
Jainism: 4 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 3 million
Tenrikyo: 2.4 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 700 thousand
Scientology: 600 thousand
Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand
 
Originally posted by bryboru
Greenworld, here is a list of the top 22 of 4200 religions (source: http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html).

Why is Christianity the right one? What's wrong with all the other relgions? Will the majority of the world's population burn in hell for not being christian, yet they firmly believe that all the others will burn in hell. Funny really. Man needs to put a reason behind his existance/life/death and this is what thousends of cultures the world over come up with the same fairytale.

=====================================

VERY INTERESTING POINT.

Islam does not teach us that all non-muslims will burn in hell.

in fact, the holy quran teach us that many christians and jews and other believers before them will end up in paradise.

Allah almighty quranttes the ETERNAL HELL ONLY and EXCLUSIVLY for the ones who insist on denying his existence.
 
You're contradicting yourself.

"Allah almighty quranttes the ETERNAL HELL ONLY and EXCLUSIVLY for the ones who insist on denying his existence"

But if you are Christian you worship one and only, almighty God, there is no other God but me...etc., etc., therefore denying the existance of Allah and going to Islamic hell!!!!

Yet you said that "christians and jews and other believers before them will end up in paradise", so which is it????

Plus there is another 4200 relgions that's millions an millions of poor souls damned to hell, just cause they didn't know any better. And these are only the religons that exist now, what about the thousends of other religons, that existed centuries before. That must be billions and billions of souls rotting and burning in hell just cause they never heard of the one true religion.

Stop fooling yourself.
 
Originally posted by Green_World
Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
"If there is no God or no life after death the believer loses nothing."

except that he wasted his life with nonsense and failed to life the only life he ever had.
Sounds like a lose lose situation to me. No life while alive and no life after death.
==========================

I am a believer, I am NOT wasting my life with nonesense, I am very happy with my life.

It is you the unbeliever who will lose if there is (and there is) GOD.

I will remind the atheists that even if Islam is wrong you are still safe. But if Islam is right you are in deep trouble. To use an expression, the Atheist may well be up the creek without a paddle.

well, your life was based on nonsense (it didn't make sense to believe in god and live under a religious doctrine = non-sense) if there is no god. This statement is not connected to your happines. Inject yourself with heroin everyday and you will also feel happy.

hence, you waste your life with nonsense and fail to live the only life you ever had, if god doesn't exist.

so you are not better off (in the chance department) as an atheist despite your illusion that you are. So that is not a reason to be religious.
 
Originally posted by bryboru
You're contradicting yourself.

"Allah almighty quranttes the ETERNAL HELL ONLY and EXCLUSIVLY for the ones who insist on denying his existence"

But if you are Christian you worship one and only, almighty God, there is no other God but me...etc., etc., therefore denying the existance of Allah and going to Islamic hell!!!!

Yet you said that "christians and jews and other believers before them will end up in paradise", so which is it????
=====================================
G W :

First I did not say ALL christians and jews will go to paradise, I said many of them.

second, christians DONT worship ONE god, they worship MAN as God and this is sheer HERESY in Islam, the christians and jews who will go to paradise are the EARLY ones who believed in GOD and not in MAN.

======================================

Plus there is another 4200 relgions that's millions an millions of poor souls damned to hell, just cause they didn't know any better. And these are only the religons that exist now, what about the thousends of other religons, that existed centuries before. That must be billions and billions of souls rotting and burning in hell just cause they never heard of the one true religion.

Stop fooling yourself.
==================================

Well, you need to stop fooling your ignorance, in Islam, Allah almighty had sent PROPHETS to EVERY SINGLE nation in this world
to guide them to the right path.

He sent Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and many others we dont know about, he sent prophets to the people living even in the jungles of Africa....ALLAH almighty does not BURN you in eternal hell just because you did not know, he said to us in the holy quran that I sent prophets to EVERY NATION and they have no excuse after that.

He also told us to convey the message of God to you, if you refuse to take it, you will be reminded of it in the day of judgment.
 
No, you're wrong-

The third commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

And secondly, "Allah almighty had sent PROPHETS to EVERY SINGLE nation in this world to guide them to the right path. "

Well nobody made up here to the little rolling hills in Ireland. And if some Celtic thug chopped this prophets head off before he could spread his devine word, why should I have to suffer the wrath of Islamic hell? That's hardly fair.
 
Originally posted by Green_World
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
Pascal's Wager is no more compelling when presented in some bastardized, Islamic form. Allah is a fairy-tale warranting no more belief than does Ba'al, YHWH, Sol Invictus, or Kali.
When your WRONGER was alive he denied GOD and when he died God laughed and asked his angels: WHERE IS HE NOW ??
I will accept that as the most 'intelligent' response at your disposal. How sad for you.
 
I'm not an atheist, but they have several advantages...
*atheists do not have the burden of proof
*atheists do not have to worship the God of a pedophile from the sand hills of what is now Saudi Arabia
*atheists do not have to follow the horrible rules of this religion, especially forcing their women to cover themselves unreasonably
 
I behave myself because someone told me that Santa Claus will being me presents if I'm good.
Pascals wager and all, y'know.

:rolleyes:

People who base their ethics upon personal reward are in a rather morally ambiguous position.

~Raithere
 
I like being hopeless: It gives me a sense of inner honesty with my self as well as lack of delusion!
 
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