Atheists what is your proof?

[Lori_7]

Have you ever been evaluated? If not, how could you expect to be diagnosed? From what you've posted here, you should certainly see a competent mental health care specialist. If you're evaluated as having no mental health issues, it would add verisimilitude to your claims.

yes i have been evaluated.

i also live a healthy, productive life, maintain a home, a job, have an education, a successful marriage, and have maintained long standing and fulfilling relationships with many, some since my childhood.

the only time in my life that anyone around me has ever been concerned about my mental health was in 2005 when i was in the middle of a very intense and disorienting spiritual experience. that is when i was evaluated. otherwise, no one has ever worried about me in the slightest. i'm the smart one, the responsible one, the one that other people come to when they need help or advice, and that remains true to this day, despite the experience in 2005.

truth is, that i'm a very strong and level-headed person, and the people who know me know that.

i apologize if that doesn't fit into your agenda.

 

[Lori_7]

If you think of what the believers say god is, omnipotent/omniscience, then the idea that he/she/it would have any need or desire to create a universe for the likes of us is pretty damn inane IYAM.

KRR

well it's a shame you have no more faith in god and humanity than that, because those who do are going to leave you in the dust.

 

[Lori_7]

Logic?

Far from it.

Try again.

The words you are looking for are 'mental aberration.'

you've never taken much time to consider the phenomenon and the implications or potential causes of it have you?

 

[Lori_7]

and just for reference, i've copied a portion of wikipedia pertaining to polls on paranormal experiences. it's evident that the people with limited perceptions like phlog, alex, and KRR are in the vast minority...

Belief polls

While the validity of the existence of paranormal phenomena is controversial and debated passionately by both proponents of the paranormal and by skeptics, surveys are useful in determining the beliefs of people in regards to paranormal phenomena. These opinions, while not constituting scientific evidence for or against, may give an indication of the mindset of a certain portion of the population (at least among those who answered the polls).
One survey of the beliefs of the general United States population regarding paranormal topics was conducted by the Gallup Organization in 2005.[27] The survey found that 73 percent of those polled believed in at least one of the ten paranormal items presented in the survey. The ten items included in the survey were: extrasensory perception (41% held this belief), haunted houses (37%), ghosts (32%), telepathy (31%), clairvoyance (26%), astrology (25%), communication with the dead (21%), witches (21%), reincarnation (20%), and channeling spiritual entities (9%). These items were selected as they "require the belief that humans have more than the 'normal' five senses." Only one percent of respondents believed in all ten items.
Another survey conducted in 2006 by researchers from Australia's Monash University[28] sought to determine what types of phenomena people claim to have experienced and the effects these experiences have had on their lives. The study was conducted as an online survey with over 2,000 respondents from around the world participating. The results revealed that around 70% of the respondents believe to have had an unexplained paranormal event that changed their life, mostly in a positive way. About 70% also claimed to have seen, heard, or been touched by an animal or person that they knew was not there; 80% have reported having a premonition, and almost 50% stated they recalled a previous life.[28]
Polls were conducted by Bryan Farha at Oklahoma City University and Gary Steward of the University of Central Oklahoma in 2006, and compared to the results of a Gallup poll in 2001.[29] They found fairly consistent results.

 

[phlogistician]

you've never taken much time to consider the phenomenon and the implications or potential causes of it have you?

Yes I have, I even linked to current neurological research on the topic, showing it can all be recreated in the lab. It's a neurological disorder. Temporal lobe epilepsy is one cause. There is no spirit realm. There are faulty brains however. You have one.

 

[phlogistician]

and just for reference, i've copied a portion of wikipedia pertaining to polls on paranormal experiences. it's evident that the people with limited perceptions like phlog, alex, and KRR are in the vast minority...

"These opinions, while not constituting scientific evidence"

EPIC FAIL Lori.

Research conducted at Oklahoma City University:

"Oklahoma City University is a coeducational, urban private university located in Oklahoma City, in the Midtown district. The university is affiliated with the United Methodist Church"

So 'research' was conducted amongst methodusts. It's hardly representative of the general population is it?

 

[gmilam]

i suppose you didn't know that the word "fruit" is used many times in the bible, and hardly ever is referring to an actual piece of fruit.

and i suppose you didn't know that time frames in the bible are often not what we equate them to.

your references here can be summed up nicely by saying, you can't see the forrest through the trees.

You have read the bible haven't you? It specifically talks of two trees in the Garden of Eden...

Personally, I can accept it as allegory and/or mythology... But then again I don't claim to believe in a religion in which this is a central pillar of the entire faith.

If it is just myth, then your entire religion is based on a myth. Talk about not being able to see the forrest for the trees. Jeez.

 

[phlogistician]

You have read the bible haven't you? It specifically talks of two trees in the Garden of Eden...

Ah, Lori thinks everything relates to sex. So when Lori reads about 'forbidden fruit' in the Garden of Eden, she interprets that as fucking.

 

[gmilam]

Your logic suggests that you know God's plan. True "righteousness" requires the capacity for true "evil". Likewise, true faith requires the capacity for doubt. The greater the capacity for doubt, the greater one's faith in overcoming it.

To even think I know God's plan would require belief in god. I'm just a seeker of understanding.

But "logically" if there is a god and it wants us to believe and behave a certain way, it would most certainly do it's best to make certain the message gets to us in an unadulturated form. Wouldn't you think that? Otherwise it's just fucking with us.

I wouldn't think god would be a practical joker, so I am more inclined to accept that the bible is exactly what it appears to be. A conglomeration of myths, legends and a little history of a tribe in the middle east. No more or less interesting than the Illiad and the Odyssey.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Genesis 1 does not say that Adam and Eve were created at the same time. It says that man was created as a male/female pair (referring to the biological nature of "mankind"). Genesis 2 is talking about the development of the spousal relationship between man and woman, suggesting that the male/female nature of homo sapien existed for some time before homo sapien developed into mated pairs sociologically.

There is no reason to think this wasn't referring to the specific geological locality of Noah and his neighboring tribes. Think about how long it took mankind to realize Earth wasn't flat. "The earth" would have referred to their known lands, not the planet.

Pick your bible then. I'll demonstrate my point as being correct.

That is a logical leap with no supporting proofs. Treat this as a geometry proof where you have to show your work. You aren't showing your work...

Technically I pointed out well-known facts to support the conclusion; however, as you will choose to contest the facts I of proposed the first step to demonstrate them.

 

[Lori_7]

Yes I have, I even linked to current neurological research on the topic, showing it can all be recreated in the lab. It's a neurological disorder. Temporal lobe epilepsy is one cause. There is no spirit realm. There are faulty brains however. You have one.

you are so desperate, seriously. you can recreate damn near anything in a lab. the fact that you're recreating it, means there's something to recreate. you can poke on my brain and make me smell blueberries; that doesn't mean blueberries don't exist, or they don't have a smell.

also, while i was channeling that poetry years back, i got a dull sensation right in the middle of my forehead. it was my third eye. over time it became slightly painful, but if i stopped writing, it went away. when i began again, it came back. it felt like something was being pulled out of my head in a way. a nice way.

i experienced other physical sensations too while channeling. i've told you that when i got up after writing for a while to use the restroom that my feet felt like they had lead boots on them. i could barely pick them off the floor. and i said to myself "why in the hell are my feet so heavy?", and i got an answer, "because when a being that isn't used to being in a body experiences it, it feels heavy."

what could that be?

and when i did get to the bathroom, and look in the mirror my pupils were entirely dilated, and stayed that way for about 10 seconds for no reason. the lights were on in both rooms. then in an instant, they were the size of pinheads, then back to normal.

and during that time i wrote 7 beautiful and meaningful paragraphs of poetry.

and otherwise, i was my normal self, and my body was functioning very normally.

 

[Lori_7]

"These opinions, while not constituting scientific evidence"

EPIC FAIL Lori.

Research conducted at Oklahoma City University:

"Oklahoma City University is a coeducational, urban private university located in Oklahoma City, in the Midtown district. The university is affiliated with the United Methodist Church"

So 'research' was conducted amongst methodusts. It's hardly representative of the general population is it?

would you read it genius? 2 gallop polls were cited, and a poll conducted by an australian university that took a worldwide sample. and the ok poll matched the results of an earlier gallop poll.

for god's sake.

you are a minority for a reason. the reason is that it is illogical not to be open-minded at least in regards to the paranormal. all the paranormal equates to is that which is outside the current scientific understanding. now since we know that scientific discovery is not on the decline, quite the opposite, it's growing exponentially, not only in volume but in magnitude, it is illogical to be close-minded about what you don't know. and to ignore the testimony of millions of people who have had paranormal experiences, or pretend that you're surrounded by mentally ill people and you're the only sane one is ridiculous.

you know why i think you're so closed-minded? because you have a problem with authority. whether it be god or aliens, i think you're averse to the idea of something that much more intelligent and/or powerful than you, or all of us.

 

[Lori_7]

Ah, Lori thinks everything relates to sex. So when Lori reads about 'forbidden fruit' in the Garden of Eden, she interprets that as fucking.

don't speak for me.

 

[Lori_7]

To even think I know God's plan would require belief in god. I'm just a seeker of understanding.

But "logically" if there is a god and it wants us to believe and behave a certain way, it would most certainly do it's best to make certain the message gets to us in an unadulturated form. Wouldn't you think that? Otherwise it's just fucking with us.

I wouldn't think god would be a practical joker, so I am more inclined to accept that the bible is exactly what it appears to be. A conglomeration of myths, legends and a little history of a tribe in the middle east. No more or less interesting than the Illiad and the Odyssey.

i think that experiencing good and evil is the most unadulterated form you're going to get.

 

[Lori_7]

You have read the bible haven't you? It specifically talks of two trees in the Garden of Eden...

Personally, I can accept it as allegory and/or mythology... But then again I don't claim to believe in a religion in which this is a central pillar of the entire faith.

If it is just myth, then your entire religion is based on a myth. Talk about not being able to see the forrest for the trees. Jeez.

well what do you think a tree of the knowledge of good and evil is? is it a rare species of tree whose fruit alters a human genetically, and seemingly abruptly when eaten? could be. but a lot of times trees and fruit, and vines and fruit, and lots of other planting analogies are used in the bible to represent other things, like people, or manifestations, or results.

 

[krreagan]

well it's a shame you have no more faith in god and humanity than that, because those who do are going to leave you in the dust.

Ya baby! 6 feet under... dust to dust! It's a circle of life type of thing...

I don't have faith in god, you're right!

What I do have is a total wonderment at the diversity of life on this planet and complete awe whenever I look up into the sky at the billions upon billions (Thanks Carl) of stars! The millions upon millions of species evolving all around us in an almost infinite variety! Takes your breath away!
Explaining it away as a creation of a god... just destroys the wonder of it all. Reducing the universe to a terrarium. We become just a play thing, no more.

KRR

 

[Jan Ardena]

Ah, Lori thinks everything relates to sex. So when Lori reads about 'forbidden fruit' in the Garden of Eden, she interprets that as fucking.

Actually that makes more sense than not eating apples don't you think?

jan.

 

[phlogistician]

you are so desperate, seriously. you can recreate damn near anything in a lab. the fact that you're recreating it, means there's something to recreate.

Yes exactly. A mental aberration.

you can poke on my brain and make me smell blueberries; that doesn't mean blueberries don't exist, or they don't have a smell.

You are putting the cart before the horse. The conclusion before the mental condition that causes people to draw it. We are flawed human beings. We experience strange experiences from time to time. Given the number of different religions, these clearly do NOT point towards some singular divine cause, but rather, that many humans experience them, converse with others, and try and negotiate some communal understanding. God as is the lowest common denominator explanation of the human condition there is.

also, while i was channeling that poetry years back, i got a dull sensation right in the middle of my forehead.

And what does it feel like to have an aneurysm, stroke, fit, or psychotic episode? I used to get dull pains in my forehead too. They were called migraines.

it was my third eye.

No, it wasn't. It was a mental aberration.

experienced other physical sensations too while channeling.

Channeling. No. Mental episode, yes.

i've told you that when i got up after writing for a while to use the restroom that my feet felt like they had lead boots on them.

Yes, and this has been explained to you as a classic symptom of a hypnagogic dream.

and when i did get to the bathroom, and look in the mirror my pupils were entirely dilated,

Bad dream, or bad drugs?

and during that time i wrote 7 beautiful and meaningful paragraphs of poetry.

Which are no longer in your possession if I recall the story correctly. Moses didn't abandon his stone tablets, so why did you abandon your gift? Because it is impossible to bring items back from a dream, perhaps?

and otherwise, i was my normal self, and my body was functioning very normally.

What you describe is far from normal. Well, for a normal person anyway.

 

[phlogistician]

Actually that makes more sense than not eating apples don't you think?

jan.

Do you believe what is written in the testaments or not? Are you going to interpret everything to your convenience using modem mores as your standard?

Where is the value in a supposed absolute, if you interpret it yourself?

In that statement you have undermined the divinity of your bibles. Well done!

 

[phlogistician]

don't speak for me.

Go on then, how were you going to interpret 'forbidden fruit'.

You know it, I know it, I just got there first.