atheists stop trying to convert religious people into your godless religion.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

yes atheism is a religion now, and it seems that on this forum many atheist extreamists are trying to convert believers.


do you like it when a religioius person tries to convert you to become one of them? if you dont then i suggest not trying to convert them into one of you.


people are DIFFERENT not all the same. the religious people on this forum are hardly ever hostile towards atheists for not believing, but the atheists are very rude in general when talking about religion to believers,

if you dont believe thats fine if they do believe thats fine, let people have there own opinion, stop bieng so agressive its not needed, what happened to bieng nice to people? toleration obviously is not a factor is it.


to you its fantasy and a little fairy tale about god who created the universe, and god who is all powerful and you think its stupid, well thats fiine but dont expect everyone to think like you, because that stupid god makes some people happy just by believing in him and having faith in him,

if one religious person in your life has hurt you then that is down to that person not everyone who is religious, dont profile people and hate for one persons actions, i am a daoist myself and i have my own beliefs, and there not the same as a christians, but i still respect a christian the same as an atheist,

some scientists are christian and muslim, and they know alot more about science than many atheists do,


peace.

your all obsessed with religion even though you say you think its stupid, you cant stop talking about it, if its so stupid then why are you in the religion forum posting? if i thought something was that stupid then i wouldent pay much attention to it,


but it haunts you doesent it because deep down you want it all to be true and you seek proof that it is true,

you want a heaven and eternal life and are pissed that you think there isnt one, and you will say im full of BS i understand, and i am sorry that you feel this way.


may peace be with you,

 

[Anti-Flag]

your all obsessed with religion even though you say you think its stupid, you cant stop talking about it, if its so stupid then why are you in the religion forum posting?

Usually philosophical reasons or to gain a better understanding of what/why people believe the things they do.

if i thought something was that stupid then i wouldent pay much attention to it,

Personally I don't, that's why I don't post much here so I'll let someone else field this 'cause I'm just bored.

but it haunts you doesent it because deep down you want it all to be true and you seek proof that it is true,

This is confusing, you accused people of trying to convert others then suggest they want to be converted themselves. Does that mean they're all failing miserably? I think you have greatly misinterpreted people, most really don't care.

you want a heaven and eternal life and are pissed that you think there isnt one, and you will say im full of BS i understand, and i am sorry that you feel this way.

I think you'd find most people would like to live forever in some way, except the suicidal not many want to die, they have things to live for and do/see. Why would that make anyone angry? If it wasn't for religion we'd have no idea of these concepts anyway so we wouldn't care, which I think is mostly the case anyway as atheists consider death to mean a ceasing of brain function without awareness death has even occured. Hey maybe we're just pissed off now 'cause we can't be later?

 

[SkinWalker]

yes atheism is a religion now,

Really? To what supernatural agent do atheists appeal? That, my friend, is a necessary component of "religion."

do you like it when a religioius person tries to convert you to become one of them? if you dont then i suggest not trying to convert them into one of you.

The only thing that atheists have attempted to convert the religious to in this forum is rationalism. They can keep whatever gods they wish, but they don't get to make bullshit claims about their superstitions and not get criticized for them.

if you dont believe thats fine if they do believe thats fine, let people have there own opinion, stop bieng so agressive its not needed, what happened to bieng nice to people? toleration obviously is not a factor is it.

Their "opinion" is getting pushed on me. All the time. I can't go to the supermarket without having some cashier try to proselytize me. The religiously deluded want their delusions codified in government and law. They want their superstitions to be taught in schools in place of science. Given the opportunity, they'd like to have it illegal to question their superstitions and criticize the behaviors and policies that result from their superstitions (I'm referring to a recent U.N. Human Rights Council Resolution).

The pages of SciForums are heavily googled and referenced by other search engines, thus, many people land here that never actually join as members who are curious about topics of religion and are wondering if religion is all its cracked up to be. They deserve to have reasoned and logical responses available to address the many religiously deluded that feel the need to post their delusions at a science website.

to you its fantasy and a little fairy tale about god who created the universe, and god who is all powerful and you think its stupid, well thats fiine but dont expect everyone to think like you, because that stupid god makes some people happy just by believing in him and having faith in him,

And the deluded are welcome to their delusions. Particularly if their delusions work for them. More power to them. But if they dare enter a public forum and make claims about their delusions and the superstitions that surround these delusions, they better be prepared for some criticism and downright ridicule. I'm yearning for the day when its the religious nutter that keeps his/her delusions private for fear of ridicule just as the UFO nutter does. Or the witchcraft nutter. Or the nutbar that gets his jollies wearing women's underwear. Such wild fantasies should be an embarrassment.

if one religious person in your life has hurt you then that is down to that person not everyone who is religious, dont profile people and hate for one persons actions, i am a daoist myself and i have my own beliefs, and there not the same as a christians, but i still respect a christian the same as an atheist,

I have lots of respect for Christians. Enough that I'm willing to capitalize their moniker, in fact. Indeed, I've enough respect for you that I'm careful to mind my spelling and grammar. But I don't have to respect anyone's belief simply because its their belief. Particularly when this belief has a profound and lasting effect on me and mine as I mentioned above. Moreover, I don't buy into the silly taboo that its okay to criticize someone's politics, their economic beliefs, or even their clothing styles, but somehow their religious superstitions are off-limits. That's pure bollocks. Particularly if they're willing to come to a science forum and make poppycock claims about their superstition.

some scientists are christian and muslim, and they know alot more about science than many atheists do,

Too bad they don't post here. But your non sequitur aside (it doesn't follow that a delusion becomes valid simply because they posses knowledge about another topic), the nutbars that visit this site are doing so because they want to argue against atheists. If there were no atheists here, the nutbars wouldn't bother. But the atheists would still post. We would be discussing among ourselves the impact that religious delusion is having on science and politics and what might be done about it. Which is what we should be focused on here instead of the incessant bickering back and forth between the reasoned and the deluded. Which, thus, brings us to the likely reason for religious nutbars posting her to begin with: to filibuster criticism of their superstitions.

Lastly, if you dislike reading the posts of atheists, agnostics, and other secular people, go to freethoughts or the cesspool, or one of the other many forums on this board.

 

[Singularity]

Its very important to have 90% of human population converted into Atheist if we want to unite the world.

If humans dont unite the world then [ENC]Singularity [/ENC]will take over.

 

[Syzygys]

i suggest not trying to convert them into one of you.

When religions stop being missionary kind, atheists will stop trying to convert others too.

I think it is a fair deal. So you go first...

 

[Diogenes' Dog]

Really? To what supernatural agent do atheists appeal? That, my friend, is a necessary component of "religion."

Most definitions do involve 'supernatural agents'. However, I think EFoC is legitimately using "religion" in the wider sense of (quote from Lindbeck cited in Wikipedia)

"...a kind of cultural and/or linguistic framework or medium that shapes the entirety of life and thought….” According to this definition, religion refers to one's primary worldview and how this dictates one's thoughts and actions.."

There's another good definition of the word in it's wider (and etymologically more correct) sense from http://www.nmhschool.org/

RELIGION (Latin: religio, ligo, "to bind together") A way of seeing, thinking, and acting inspired by questions about what things mean: i.e. Where did we come from?, What is our destiny?, What is true?, What is false?, What is my duty or obligation?, What is the meaning of suffering?, What is the meaning of death?, How shall we live? (Ezekiel 33:10)

These are questions we are all trying to find answers to. Atheism is more parsimonious than many theistic religions, but may also therefore be over-simplistic. It's a question of taste in the end!

I'm yearning for the day when its the religious nutter that keeps his/her delusions private for fear of ridicule just as the UFO nutter does. Or the witchcraft nutter. Or the nutbar that gets his jollies wearing women's underwear. Such wild fantasies should be an embarrassment.

I have lots of respect for Christians. Enough that I'm willing to capitalize their moniker, in fact.

Don't you contradict yourself here SW - or are Christians not among the "religious nutters" who should be embarrassed by their wild fantasies?

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Usually philosophical reasons or to gain a better understanding of what/why people believe the things they do.

Personally I don't, that's why I don't post much here so I'll let someone else field this 'cause I'm just bored.


This is confusing, you accused people of trying to convert others then suggest they want to be converted themselves. Does that mean they're all failing miserably? I think you have greatly misinterpreted people, most really don't care.

I think you'd find most people would like to live forever in some way, except the suicidal not many want to die, they have things to live for and do/see. Why would that make anyone angry? If it wasn't for religion we'd have no idea of these concepts anyway so we wouldn't care, which I think is mostly the case anyway as atheists consider death to mean a ceasing of brain function without awareness death has even occured. Hey maybe we're just pissed off now 'cause we can't be later?

ok i accept that the first and second.


i did not say people want to be converted it is not contradictory, i said deep down atheists want there to be a god, and i believe this is true i think thats where alot of anger comes from "fear of death" religious people are more at ease with there own demise from this world than you atheists, and it makes them less hostile towards atheists,


yes i believe that alot of athiests are just "pissed off" and they take it out on religious folk. inner peace is easy to spot in somebody. and most atheists do not have it, believing in god/s makes one happyer this is the truth, and i think in a way the blissful so called ignorance and happyness of most religious people annoys atheists.


peace.

Really? To what supernatural agent do atheists appeal? That, my friend, is a necessary component of "religion."

[...]

Lastly, if you dislike reading the posts of atheists, agnostics, and other secular people, go to freethoughts or the cesspool, or one of the other many forums on this board.

why does a supernatural agenda have to be affiliated with a religious mindset and group mentality of following?



and i suppose rationalism as you put it, consists of verbaly attacking belief systems, bieng rude and throwing a little online tantrum cursing people for what they believe in because its different to your system? i dont believe in the big bang theory and its entire premise, i hink its a crock of shit, but i am not personaly insulting you for believing in it am i, because bieng polite and calm in my eyes is "rational" bieng a jerk isnt,


you said

"The religiously deluded want their delusions codified in government and law. They want their superstitions to be taught in schools"

and i suppose you want it different for your atheist beliefs yes? i think not my friend you are a hypocrite. your big bang theory was taught to me at school and i got in trouble and bad test scores for saying i think it might not be true, scientific theory is not solid fact yet it is taught as if it was sometimes,


why do you have to ridicule and mock people though? you said they should be ready for it, think they should be ready for a debate and clash of polite opinions, not a bombardment of assualts. do you really think to a neautral onlooker you look any different to those that you mock? i dont reside in camp religion or camp atheist, and i watch you both with interest, your not that different in spirit, you just think different things,


a wise man is polite and shows respect.

you said if i dislike reading the posts of atheists i should go to the cesspool and free thoughts section. you again are bieng a hypocrite. firstly i am expressing my opinion in a calm way not trying to bully anybody. secondly you are the one posting in a religious forum, you say you dont like this but you are here telling me to go away?

peace.

 

[Nasor]

yes atheism is a religion now...

In the sense that "I don't play football" is a football team, I suppose.

but it haunts you doesent it because deep down you want it all to be true and you seek proof that it is true,

you want a heaven and eternal life and are pissed that you think there isnt one, and you will say im full of BS i understand, and i am sorry that you feel this way.

Do you believe that what I want to be true has any bearing whatsoever on what is true? Demosthenes said it back in 300 B.C.: "Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true."

That's the thing about most religious people that I just can't respect - they don't really seem to care about truth. If they want something to be true because they find it appealing, they simply throw any concern for truth out the window and start believing it. I think truth is very important, and sacrificing truth simply to make yourself happy is the coward's way out.

You see it all the time when you talk to religious people. When they find out you're an atheist, they always (in my experience, anyway) act shocked and say things like "But don't you want eternal life???" As if they expect me to respond "Why yes, I do. Since I want it, I suppose I'll start believing I'll get it."

If you consider "inner peace" to be more important than truth, then I suppose believing in religion would be a very good bargain, but personally I don't think that inner peace is worth it if you have to surrender truth to obtain it.

 

[SnakeLord]

i said deep down atheists want there to be a god

Which one? Or do you just mean some impersonal higher power that zapped the universe into existence? If it's the former: not at all, if it's the latter: who cares?

 

[SkinWalker]

inner peace is easy to spot in somebody. and most atheists do not have it,

What are qualities of "inner peace" and how do you quantify the claim that "most atheists do not have it." Please elucidate. I'm curious how a self-described "Daoist" who also admits to violating the law by keeping illegal firearms qualifies and quantifies "inner peace."

why does a supernatural agenda have to be affiliated with a religious mindset and group mentality of following?

Simple. I'm an anthropologist. In order to make the term "religion" useful as a descriptor, it needs to have a useful definition. By assigning the colloquial and distinctly non-academic description of "religion" to any human activity that is done repetitively or diligently, you end up with a useless definition that can be made to fit any human activity that involves at least one person. Baseball, poker, housecleaning, reading the newspaper, and picking one's nose can, thus, be qualified as religions under your loose and un-informed definition.

I agree, wholeheartedly, that the trope of religion can be given to any human activity in order to demonstrate the participant's diligence and passion exceeds that of other, more general participants. "He person with a religious devotion in picking his nose," is a useful description in that it separates the subject from the rest of us. We know that such a person will regularly and routinely pick his nose and perhaps with great care and attention to detail. But it would be absurd to refer to his activity as an actual "religion." The term, in this case is a trope.

It may also be useful (I will readily admit) to refer to some atheists as religious in their willingness to share their opinions with others. I can accept that description as adequate and accurate of myself. But it is folly to suggest that because such tropes are useful and accurate, that they equate to actually being able to define atheism as a religion in the true sense.

The most accurate and useful definition of religion is the one that includes the perception that the participant is appeasing or appealing to a supernatural agent or agency.

and i suppose rationalism as you put it, consists of verbaly attacking belief systems, bieng rude and throwing a little online tantrum cursing people for what they believe in because its different to your system?

Tantrums? Cursing? Please click the "report post" button on these so I can moderate these. Of course, its more likely that you're referring to those posts that dare question and criticize those deluded by various religious superstitions. If so, then, yes, rationalism does include criticism. Those that are offended by their beliefs being questioned call it "verbally attacking" and "being rude." The rational, however, consider it to be valid criticism and inquiry. The former is offended because the rational bring up salient points to which they have difficulty rationalizing. Indeed, they have only tautology, circular reasoning and complete and utter devotion to delusion to offer in their defense.

i dont believe in the big bang theory and its entire premise, i hink its a crock of shit, but i am not personaly insulting you for believing in it am i, because bieng polite and calm in my eyes is "rational" bieng a jerk isnt,

I don't believe in continually misspelling words and violating grammatical conventions just because I'm on the internet. But I'm no more "personally insulting you" about it than you did me in the preceding paragraph. Indeed, I'm quite calm about it. Moreover, what evidence do you have that I "believe in the big bang theory?" Could it be that you are making a logical fallacy by creating a strawman and an assumption that isn't relevant to the discussion?

you said

"The religiously deluded want their delusions codified in government and law. They want their superstitions to be taught in schools"

and i suppose you want it different for your atheist beliefs yes? i think not my friend you are a hypocrite. your big bang theory was taught to me at school and i got in trouble and bad test scores for saying i think it might not be true, scientific theory is not solid fact yet it is taught as if it was sometimes,

I suspect it was other considerations and the way you said it "might not be true" that earned you bad marks in school (but then I've said I'd not insult you about your grammar and spelling, so I'll abstain from going there). But your logical fallacy continues in the belief that acceptance of the big bang as a theory for the beginning of the universe is an atheistic belief; that big bang=atheism and vice versa. Interestingly enough, the difference between those deluded by religious superstition and those who accept the big bang as the best explanation for the beginning of the universe as we currently understand it is this: those deluded by superstition admit that their doctrine cannot change -ever; those that accept the big bang admit that it might not be true and are open to new, better explanations. Indeed, the latter are even looking for them!

why do you have to ridicule and mock people though? you said they should be ready for it, think they should be ready for a debate and clash of polite opinions, not a bombardment of assualts.

Ridicule and satire are valid and well-accepted forms of social critique and commentary. Look through any daily newspaper and you'll see political cartoons that satirize political decisions and failures. This is ridicule. And it is very effective. I think the problem is that you confuse my comment about 'ridicule' to include out-right "bashing" of the innocent. I'm not advocating that people approach someone with a "Jesus Saves" bumpersticker next to their silly fish and shout "ha, ha! You're a Dummy for believing that nonsense!"

I am, however, advocating strongly that it is completely appropriate to apply a Darwin Fish to the back of their car. And I find the FSM to be a fine example of parody and satire, another form of ridicule.

a wise man is polite and shows respect.

A wiser man still understands how to effectively use parody and satire, forms of ridicule, to illustrate the silliness of the fool.

you said if i dislike reading the posts of atheists i should go to the cesspool and free thoughts section. you again are bieng a hypocrite. firstly i am expressing my opinion in a calm way not trying to bully anybody. secondly you are the one posting in a religious forum, you say you dont like this but you are here telling me to go away?

I'm merely pointing you in directions that you might find less conflict for your "inner peace." Your baseless and inaccurate assessments that I'm a hypocrite notwithstanding, I rather hope you stay and discuss. The discussions, however, will likely be those which you claim to dislike to read.

 

[nietzschefan]

Tough, if someone you know converts to atheism - too damn bad. Conversely, if someone "finds" Jesus, too damn bad.

The right for me to extend my fist ends at you're nose.

 

[Anti-Flag]

i did not say people want to be converted it is not contradictory, i said deep down atheists want there to be a god, and i believe this is true i think thats where alot of anger comes from "fear of death" religious people are more at ease with there own demise from this world than you atheists, and it makes them less hostile towards atheists,

Why would they want there to be a god? Someone to blame for the misfortune? I don't know many atheists that fear death as such, for they don't believe they will feel anything, they will cease to be, how can that bring fear except fear of the unexpected, a state of being that cannot be experienced or imagined until you reach it at which point you won't even know you're in that state. Religious people feel the same fear of the unexpected. As for hostility I think you need to take another look around, most religions are very hostile towards non-believers.

yes i believe that alot of athiests are just "pissed off" and they take it out on religious folk. inner peace is easy to spot in somebody. and most atheists do not have it, believing in god/s makes one happyer this is the truth, and i think in a way the blissful so called ignorance and happyness of most religious people annoys atheists.


peace.

They take it out on anyone who wishes to get in their way, much like everyone else would. I think you're far too general to seperate emotions using religion as a base. You might well however be right about the correlation between ignorance and happiness. I for one would rather not be more stupid in exchange for happiness. A persons happiness is unlikely to annoy me, their stupidity might.

 

[Xelios]

people are DIFFERENT not all the same. the religious people on this forum are hardly ever hostile towards atheists for not believing, but the atheists are very rude in general when talking about religion to believers,

A collection of science forums hardly seems like a good place to find tactful atheists who respect people's belief in what is, from a scientific standpoint, pure fantasy.

If I were to post on some fundie evangelistic Christian forum about my atheistic beliefs I wouldn't expect people there to just say "Nice to meet you, and I completely respect your beliefs.", I expect they'd try to convert me and treat me like a poor lost soul while rattling off Bible verses about how I'll find God if I just open my eyes to "the truth".

but it haunts you doesent it because deep down you want it all to be true and you seek proof that it is true,

Don't pretend to have some deep insight into the atheist mind, because chances are you'll be completely wrong. What you just said is no different than me saying the only reason you believe in God is because you're scared and can't cope with life without an imaginary friend helping you along.

Einstein's Equation of Christian Salvation (on Faith Alone)
by Christenstein

Not only is that one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read, but it makes absolutely no sense at all. You're gonna have to do a LOT better than that to have any hope of peaking people's interest.

 

[SnakeLord]

If I were to post on some fundie evangelistic Christian forum about my atheistic beliefs I wouldn't expect people there to just say "Nice to meet you, and I completely respect your beliefs.", I expect they'd try to convert me and treat me like a poor lost soul while rattling off Bible verses about how I'll find God if I just open my eyes to "the truth".

I actually went to one for a laugh and got banned after my first post which said; "Hi, I'm an atheist". Makes you wonder.

 

[VitalOne]

Atheists try to convert others by any means possible, they've even written their own books and came up with their own propaganda.....like FSM and the Invisible Pink Unicorn...they'll try anything to convert others....

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Atheists try to convert others by any means possible, they've even written their own books and came up with their own propaganda.....like FSM and the Invisible Pink Unicorn...they'll try anything to convert others....

*************
M*W: I don't know if you have a reading comprehension problem or if you just can't read. Once again, atheists don't aim to convert anyone. Converting one to atheism is not something we do to others. Becoming an atheist can only be done by oneself when the time is right. We do, however, point out bible contradictions, compare christianity with ancient myths, show where the bible has more than 3000 errors and mistakes. We don't invite you to join atheist groups unless you show an interest. We can't make you believe anything, and we don't try. We will make sure that we provide you with the truth about religion, but what you do with that information is up to you. It took me a lot of years to go from being christian to being an atheist. I fought it as hard as you all do. Then one day, like a lightbulb went on in my head, I realized that there was no god, no Jesus, no salvation and no true religion. Then everything fell into place for me. That block that I had blinding me from the truth finally disappeared. But other than that, it is not up to us to convert anyone. It was hard and long enough to see the light for ourselves. So, I don't want to hear anymore bullshit from christians saying that atheists try to convert them. It's just not true.

 

[SkinWalker]

Atheists try to convert others by any means possible, they've even written their own books and came up with their own propaganda.....like FSM and the Invisible Pink Unicorn...they'll try anything to convert others....

You're mistaking criticism and ridicule for proselytizing. Do you really think that any of the deluded masses who buy into religious superstition are in the least bit swayed by Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, the FSM or the IPU? Did you find yourself doubting your faith, VO?

 

[Godless]

I don't want to get off topic, but an off topic consequence took place.

I.E. Big Bang=Atheist...

This is not so EmptyForceOfChi. here's a thread started by an atheist, and battled for several pages against the BB theory!
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=51188

 

[SnakeLord]

Atheists try to convert others by any means possible, they've even written their own books and came up with their own propaganda.....like FSM and the Invisible Pink Unicorn...they'll try anything to convert others....

I tell you what, although you'll find the majority of atheists will disagree with you and indeed explain why, I shall take a different stance for the sake of this discussion.

Here it comes..

I agree with you 100%. We're all out to convert people. Now.. could you please explain the problem with that and then go about explaining that very same problem to all the christians that have a duty to try and convert others?

What exactly is your beef with people trying to convert you?

P.S I shall be knocking on your door next week.

 

[Singularity]

.... Now.. could you please explain the problem with that and then go about explaining that very same problem to all the christians that have a duty to try and convert others?....

I agree with this , there r many religion that also force people to get converted.

Any bad words for such people are not enough.