Atheists and the soul

Do you sign?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 33.3%

  • No.

    Votes: 10 66.7%
  • Total voters
    15
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Trooper said:
To promote atheism, Kittamaru. Do you have a problem with that?
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A little... because that would, essentially, be preaching... which as I'm sure you know is against forum rules, not to mention COMPLETELY off the topic of the thread.

Dave provided a scenario from which to (from what I can tell) gather data/see how people would react in the situation provided.

It is not to debate the "merits or intricacies of theism or atheism"...

If you want to promote atheism, find a corner to preach on.
 
Kittamaru said:
A little... because that would, essentially, be preaching... which as I'm sure you know is against forum rules, not to mention COMPLETELY off the topic of the thread.

Dave provided a scenario from which to (from what I can tell) gather data/see how people would react in the situation provided.

It is not to debate the "merits or intricacies of theism or atheism"...

If you want to promote atheism, find a corner to preach on.
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Sorry, but this is a science forum. Allowing a religious person, such as yourself, to moderate it was non-logical. It’s my small contribution to help eliminate religious beliefs. It won’t solve all of our problems, but it will help move people to making more rational decisions on a larger scale. If you don't like it...ban me.
 
Trooper said:
Sorry, but this is a science forum. Allowing a religious person, such as yourself, to moderate it was non-logical. It’s my small contribution to help eliminate religious beliefs. It won’t solve all of our problems, but it will help move people to making more rational decisions on a larger scale. If you don't like it...ban me.
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Right... so instead of following forum rules (the rules you agreed to be bound to when you signed up), you are going to claim that I am being "illogical" because of my religion.

I think instead I'll simply purge your off-topic posts and allow Dave to continue his thread as he wishes.

Dave - I leave it up to you if you want the last few posts struck from the thread or if you would prefer to continue to debate with Trooper.
 
Kittamaru said:
Right... so instead of following forum rules (the rules you agreed to be bound to when you signed up), you are going to claim that I am being "illogical" because of my religion.

I think instead I'll simply purge your off-topic posts and allow Dave to continue his thread as he wishes.

Dave - I leave it up to you if you want the last few posts struck from the thread or if you would prefer to continue to debate with Trooper.
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Why not run that pass Dave first?
 
Kittamaru said:
Dave - I leave it up to you if you want the last few posts struck from the thread or if you would prefer to continue to debate with Trooper.
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He hasn't returned. You're the moderator. Can my posts remain?

Preaching doesn't bother me. It only becomes a problem when it moves from exhortation to extortion. I’m not using intimidation or threats to impose my norm on the public, or violating freedom of religion, nor freedom from religion.

To urge or persuade someone to accept or abandon an idea or course of action isn't a bad thing. Language and communication plays a vital role in our lives. Our survival and social life depends critically on our ability to communicate effectively. Children are unable to detach themselves from their own point of view. They assume that the world appears to others as it does to them. Adults are a little more skilled, but far from perfect. We still tend to be biased by our own points of view.

I respect their preaching and concern, I do, but I don’t like it when they make threats and use their emotions like a club. Your feelings can be deceptive and lead you to the wrong conclusions. There is a huge difference between persuasion and coercion. If you think that religious coercion no longer exists in this world, think again.

 
*sigh* Trooper... I know religious coercion exists, believe me, I do. It's part of why I hold my religious beliefs so dear. I went to church pretty much from the moment I was six months old (our church had a nursery that had speakers so everyone therein could hear the sermon). I was made to go to church camps and church daycare and all sorts of such stuff...

I discarded all of that when I struck out on my own, because faith meant nothing to me if it wasn't my own. It's part of why I'm so... irritated... by people that try to lump everyone of a religion together, the good and the bad. You will get that everywhere.

If your intent is to TEACH, then I have no qualms with that. There IS a difference between TEACHING a belief and PREACHING a belief, though. If I have your word you will keep it civil and keep to the spirit of education, then I have no issue with it.
 
because faith meant nothing to me if it wasn't my own
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A faith of your own creation, then?

The only thing people mean when they say things like this, is that they have siphoned what they can accept from what they can not.
Which renders their "personal" faith ultimately meaningless. Other than to themselves.

The only evidence of god is in the scripts. Without those, God does not exist, other than in the minds of believers.
Ergo, you follow the scripts, or you reject them.

This is how cults are formed.
How many faces does god have?
 
Marquis, you misunderstand:

Faith that is foisted upon you from birth, that is drilled into you at childhood, and indoctrinated into you all your life... isn't really faith. It's just something you do because, well, you don't know or think any better.

I went out into the world and looked around. I went to churches/mosques/ et al of varying faiths and demi-faiths, including Unitarian Universalist (a strange one to say the least). I dabbled in Buddhism and Taoism, the pagan faiths, and for a while was Agnostic.

My search finally led me back to Christianity... but a specific understanding of it. The church my wife and I attend is Crosspoint United Methodist, but it is a little more... I dunno, open hearted and open minded... than most? They don't put weight on such silly things as gender orientation/identification and they understand that parts of the bible are so utterly outdated as to be nigh-irrelevant in society today. It is a modified Christianity, one that has accepted the differences of opinion and integrated a more welcoming and, dare I say, homey aspect of faith... the idea of reaching out to those in need or with a desire to learn, instead of trying to foist your ideals on those who want nothing to do with them.

As for how many "faces" God has... as many as He needs. Our belief is that God lives in this world through all of us, and our actions... it is our responsibility to not just "worship the light", but rather to strive to BE that light that the world can rally around... to be a driving force for GOOD for all people.
 
I'm here.

I too am confused by Trooper's responses. He admits he is preaching.

One of the things that gives atheists a bad name is that some of them can be just as bad as theists about shoving their beliefs down others' throats. This is a Science forum, but this is the Religion thread. Members can't preach religion here, I'll be my sweet bippy they can't preach atheism either.

"I may not agree with your views, but I'l defend to the last your right to express them." (provided they are expressed rationally and without hate)

That is a rational, inclusive and civilized philosophy that Trooper would do well to observe, unless he'd prefer to just make a fight about everything he disagrees with.

As for removing Trooper's comments - I think the thread has run its course. I think anyone who has an opinion on the original hypothetical has spoken their mind. His comments aren't directly interfering with the thread any more.

But I do think they violate forum rules. If they were to be removed, it should be for that reason.
 
Trooper said:
Sorry, but this is a science forum.
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keyword being forum i.e. discussion of varying viewpoints

Trooper said:
Allowing a religious person, such as yourself, to moderate it was non-logical.
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False false false. Wow so false.

1] It is not a given that science and religion are mutually exclusive.
2] Next you'll be telling us that I have no business in the Astronomy forum because I am not an Astronomer. Or that the pregnancy and birthing forum should not be moderated by a man. These are once again, ad hominems, to suggest that a person must have certain personal stake in something before they re qualified to discuss it rationally.


Trooper said:
It’s my small contribution to help eliminate religious beliefs .... If you don't like it...ban me.
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You donlt get banned for liking something or not liking it. You get banned for breaking forum rules, such as preaching in the religion forum - rules which, as Kit points out, you agreed to when you signed up. So, you want to go back on your word, that's on you.
 
Kittamaru has less knowledge in theology than most atheists.

What’s your definition of preaching, telling people how to live their lives, and neither one of you ever does that, eh?

Whatever. The premise is old and boring anyhow.
 
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