Atheist Fundamentalism and the Limits of Science

[SnakeLord]

opens with a scientific claim based on atheism

Firstly, not really. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods, the statement made was that proper science education could dissuade people from a belief in heaven. They're different things - unless you want to change the meaning of atheism.

Secondly the claim is made by an atheist but is not a claim based on atheism.

poses a question whether atheism is beyond the purview of science

Atheism is a lack of belief in gods - that's it. The question is ultimately pointless.

and that's science?

No, that's an opinion based upon certain factors.

I lack a belief in gods and werewolves etc partly because I have learnt, understand and agree with the scientific method and as such am less likely to "have a belief in heaven", (or other such things outside the scope of the scientific method).

 

[spidergoat]

if you want to specifically discuss means of asserting theistic claims, we should probably take it to a separate thread, since its not a subject Dawkins comes close to approaching

Addressing the reasons given for theistic claims is the precise subject of Dawkins' book.

are the words "means" and "reasons" the same?
:shrug:

Wouldn't you say that means based on consciousness cannot be extended to include anything in the physical universe?

Science makes use of inspiration and introspection as well, but they don't stop there, these ideas are then brought to the physical world for confirmation. What sort of confirmation could there possibly be if the idea only exists in your mind?

 

[elsyarango]

Is atheism a claim that stands outside of science?

atheism is a belief that there are no deities

 

[Enmos]

atheism is a belief that there are no deities

Wrong !
Atheism is the lack of belief in deities.

 

[elsyarango]

i am an atheist. i believe that there is no such thing as any gods. that is what atheism is about. i deny the existence of any god.

 

[Thoreau]

So who is one that does not believe in a god, yet at the same time does not completely rule out the possibility of a god?

 

[Enmos]

So who is one that does not believe in a god, yet at the same time does not completely rule out the possibility of a god?

Agnostic

 

[Enmos]

i am an atheist. i believe that there is no such thing as any gods. that is what atheism is about. i deny the existence of any god.

i believe that there is no such thing as any gods

i deny the existence of any god

Two different things..

 

[elsyarango]

So who is one that does not believe in a god, yet at the same time does not completely rule out the possibility of a god?

there is a difference between ignorance and intelligence.
ignorance means i will never admit that i am wrong.
intelligence means that i will admit that i am wrong.

anybody that calls themself anything but ignorant is open to the possibility that they are wrong. otherwise you do do not fall under anything but ignorance.

 

[elsyarango]

i believe that there is no such thing as any gods

i deny the existence of any god

Two different things..

that fact that i believe there is no such thing as any gods means i am denying gods existence. they are the same.

 

[Enmos]

there is a difference between ignorance and intelligence.
ignorance means i will never admit that i am wrong.
intelligence means that i will admit that i am wrong.

anybody that calls themself anything but ignorant is open to the possibility that they are wrong. otherwise you do do not fall under anything but ignorance.

Provided you cannot know it of course..

 

[Thoreau]

there is a difference between ignorance and intelligence.
ignorance means i will never admit that i am wrong.
intelligence means that i will admit that i am wrong.

anybody that calls themself anything but ignorant is open to the possibility that they are wrong. otherwise you do do not fall under anything but ignorance.

With all due respect, I believe what you are talking about is completely unrelated to the current topic.

 

[SnakeLord]

Sheesh.. I would explain it all but it really honestly truly has been done to death. Do a search and you'll find out the differences between weak atheism, strong atheism and agnosticism.

 

[elsyarango]

With all due respect, I believe what you are talking about is completely unrelated to the current topic.

anybody that says i believe in something, but i am not open to the belief that 'i am wrong and the opposite belief is right' is ignorant. they are not relevant to this discussion.

if i say i believe there is no god and i am not open to being wrong, i am simply called an ignorant ass atheist.

 

[Enmos]

anybody that says i believe in something, but i am not open to the belief that 'i am wrong and the opposite belief is right' is ignorant. they are not relevant to this discussion.

if i say i believe there is no god and i am not open to being wrong, i am simply called an ignorant ass atheist.

You may want to say that you think there are no gods, in stead.

 

[elsyarango]

Sheesh.. I would explain it all but it really honestly truly has been done to death. Do a search and you'll find out the differences between weak atheism, strong atheism and agnosticism.

????
what matter of rubbish?
sorry, but i dont agree with any of that. i find it silly. no offense to anybody. i find theism just as silly. but theist find my beliefs silly, so its ok.

 

[Enmos]

????
what matter of rubbish?
sorry, but i dont agree with any of that. i find it silly. no offense to anybody. i find theism just as silly. but theist find my beliefs silly, so its ok.

According to the theists here you are a theist as well because you believe there are no gods..

 

[elsyarango]

You may want to say that you think there are no gods in stead.

whatever. i can say i think there are no gods. i believe their are not gods. i totally deny any gods existing. i have a disbelief in gods. i think gods are fairytale. under the debate of diety existence i stand on the position that gods dont exist. bravo.

 

[elsyarango]

According to the theists here you are a theist

according to me i have not met any theist friend of yours that nuts enough to consider my a theist.

 

[lightgigantic]

Yay, fantasic refutation of Dawkins! I'LL BELIEVE IN WHAT I LIKE AND YOU CAN'T STOP ME! NANANANANANA

or alternatively, dawkin's standard for defining delusion is sub-standard