Atheist Fundamentalism and the Limits of Science

[spidergoat]

It's never been achieved.

 

[Myles]

Indeed they do.. just this morning I had two atheists knock on my door telling me that the only way to salvation was to believe that gods dont exist...

:bugeye:

I can't help wondering whether they are the same two who invited me to a god-mocking cermony

 

[Xev]

Science doesn't work with absolutes

How about absolute zero degrees ?

Impossible to reach by any finite process. Kinda like a conclusion to an internet argument....

 

[S.A.M.]

I can't help wondering whether they are the same two who invited me to a god-mocking cermony

These guys?

http://www.atheistagenda.org/porno-for-bibles/

 

[Myles]

It's never been achieved.

So it's just like getting to know god ?

 

[SnakeLord]

I can't help wondering whether they are the same two who invited me to a god-mocking cermony

You'd know if it was them - they preached from The Origin of Species, handed out free copies of the god delusion and argued that evolution should be taught in churches.

 

[Myles]

These guys?

http://www.atheistagenda.org/porno-for-bibles/

I could swear on a stack of bibles that one was a transvestite

 

[S.A.M.]

I didn't say he invented them - just that Webster uses a definition that is at odds with an ontological rebuttal - and did so knowingly.

Whose ontological rebuttal? Not an atheist who knows empiricism and considers himself beyond belief?

The Greeks had no issues.

 

[Myles]

You'd know if it was them - they preached from The Origin of Species, handed out free copies of the god delusion and argued that evolution should be taught in churches.

Not the same then. Mine were quoting from The Descent of Man. No mention of women

 

[Myles]

Whose ontological rebuttal? Not an atheist who knows empiricism and considers himself beyond belief?

The Greeks had no issues.

Have you read The Trial and Death of Socrates ?

 

[Xev]

So it's just like getting to know god ?

According to Trent Reznor, that can be achieved through really good sex.

 

[Roman]

I thought that was a pun on dyslexics and doing it doggy style.

 

[Myles]

I thought that was a pun on dyslexics and doing it doggy style.

Have you nothing better to do than watch dogs having Tantric sex ?

 

[S.A.M.]

[/COLOR]

Have you read The Trial and Death of Socrates ?

With the definition of atheism I mean.

I have too many other issues with the Greeks myself.

 

[ashura]

I think that is an element of intellectual dishonesty at play here. Atheists like to think of themselves as rational and use the excuse of denial of belief rather than no belief to maintain their self assessment.

Its like any other group.

All the atheists I have seen here are pure atheists, some are really just atheists who know about empiricism and like to think of themselves as rational and use creative definitions.

"Denial of belief." I've heard this term used before in a similar discussion, but I still have no idea what it means. Are you suggesting that I hold a latent belief in god(s) that I'm actively denying?

Also, where have I denied my "no belief" in gods? I assure you that I'm an atheist because of that very lack of belief.

Lastly, the definitions that I use when it comes to this argument all come from dictionary.com which collects definitions from many reputable dictionaries. If you think that the definitions being used are creative and not accurate, I suggest you bring it up with Webster & co. For the sake of the discussion, I'll present the two specific definitions that I use with links, plus bolded emphasis on the key points that make up my argument:

a·the·ist –noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

dis·be·lief –noun
1. the inability or refusal to believe or to accept something as true.

 

[S.A.M.]

"Denial of belief." I've heard this term used before in a similar discussion, but I still have no idea what it means. Are you suggesting that I hold a latent belief in god(s) that I'm actively denying?

Also, where have I denied my "no belief" in gods? I assure you that I'm atheist an because of that very lack of belief.

Lastly, the definitions that I use when it comes to this argument all come from dictionary.com which collects definitions from many reputable dictionaries. If you think that the definitions being used are creative and not accurate, I suggest you bring it up with Webster & co. For the sake of the discussion, I'll present the two specific definitions that I use with links, plus bolded emphasis on the key points that make up my argument:

a·the·ist –noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

dis·be·lief –noun
1. the inability or refusal to believe or to accept something as true.

Then we agree with each other, since I consider "denial of belief" to be a logically untenable position.

 

[ashura]

But... but which atheist is even bringing up a denial of belief? The only time I've seen such an idea being used was by Photizo who thinks that I believe in god but am somehow making myself not believe (don't ask me how that works).

 

[S.A.M.]

But... but which atheist is even bringing up a denial of belief? The only time I've seen such an idea being used was by Photizo who thinks that I believe in god but am somehow making myself not believe (don't ask me how that works).

Stick around, there are some very creative types here.

 

[spidergoat]

Belief isn't fundamentalist if it's tentative.

 

[SnakeLord]

But... but which atheist is even bringing up a denial of belief?

I personally think the issue comes down to specifics. You see where an atheist sees the word "god" or "gods" the theist sees "specific god".

I would say that when it comes to yahweh, god of the jews, I am a 'strong atheist'. I consider the OT little more than the ramblings of old jews based upon the ramblings of old sumerians. I am also 'strong atheist' to the hippy jew god of the christians. Further to that I am also strong atheist to apollo and abellio, marduk and tiamat, (as I'm sure these very same theists are). However, I acknowledge that there might be some entity out there that created the cosmos.. The difference is merely specifics.

As S. Roberts said: "I contend that we are all atheists, I just believe in one less god than you do...."

And it is true. Sam and lg are both 'strong atheists' with concerns to Thor and Ra. They would laugh in your face before even accepting the possibility that these gods exist. You therefore are better than they, you accept the possibility that gods exist, you simply lack belief in them until a time when it is pertinent to do so. These theists that argue atheism are mere hypocrites, because they too are atheists.