Oddly enough, it was written by a theologian and is adopted by AA
He wasn't a charlatan; he was a believer. Some of them are very nice, sincere, well-intentioned people.
I can respect them - I just can't respect their mythology.
Atheist expects death to be oblivion.
- Thread starter Dinosaur
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I can respect them - I just can't respect their mythology.
btw, if anyone cares: There are religious traditions that provide for afterlives of various kinds - death as a transition to a spiritual realm of sorts in contiguous existence with our physical one, sometimes even including the possibility of "reincarnation" or back transition - without involving a deity. Not all atheists regard death as oblivion.
When you ascribe the supernatural qualities of deity to the universe, you essentially make the universe your God. It’s called pantheism, and adherence to such notions qualifies as theism.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Yes, there are several countries which allow euthanasia for the sake of mental health.
https://www.crikey.com.au/2016/06/17/which-countries-have-legalised-euthanasia-crikey/
Mis quote
Lord let me tolerate the fools
Patience with idiots
And the strength to bury the bodies of those I kill
Was the suicide of Jesus an example of mental instability?
Of course. So is all martyrdom.
However, the biblical religions value sacrifice, especially if it includes copious amounts of suffering, whether it's dedicated to their god or to their national aspirations. Thus, saints and soldiers are applauded.
They do not value - indeed, strongly and sternly disapprove of - individual happiness. Thus, any attempt to evade the suffering meted out by their god is a sin.
In theory.
Actually, their spiritual leaders enjoy quite a high standard of material comfort.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Atheists admire and reward self-sacrifice in the form of heroic beneficial behavior in the face of overwhelming odds, such as saving a life.
Atheists do not admire self-sacrifice in the form of suicide in the act of killing other people in the name of God.
I'd say that's a pretty universal value, not a religious one.
The point was that atheists value individual happiness and quality of life. They do not value suffering nor punish attempt to shorten its duration.
Would you really?
Some do, some don't. You don't have to be religious to value someone's sacrifice (say, a firefighter who went back into a burning building to save a child.) And that sacrifice becomes more significant if, for example, the firefighter was crippled as a result. Even atheists might place a higher value on someone doing that vs. someone going into a building that is merely smoky to rescue a child, and returning unharmed.
Does that mean that they "value suffering?" No. Does that mean they value the sacrifice that that firefighter made, one that resulted in a lot of suffering for him? Yes.
To look at it at a societal level, all astronauts who fly on missions do dangerous work. The ones that die horribly in the process (surely the highest level of suffering and sacrifice) have high schools named after them - even though all astronauts face similar levels of risk.
Yep.
Nobody referred to is doing that.
And if everything is God nothing is.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Yes, but not if such self-sacrificial heroism is used for wanton killing of innocents in the name of some obscure cause. I think that is the definition of martyrdom, no?
Dying for a cause is noble. Dying while killing innocent people for a cause, is just crazy, IMO
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Easily finessed - none of the people killed are innocent.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Was 911 a noble act of self-sacrifice, by the "terrorists"? Some radical Islamists thought so.
Were all people killed, including the firemen "guilty" of some offense?
However, that's not the sacrifice to which I was referring. I did specify:
Besides, a fireman doesn't deliberately give up his life in exchange for the child's: his intention is to save the child and survive. Going back to burn along with the kid would be just as stupid as burning for your belief, which Christian prelates greatly admire - even if they had to light the fire themselves.
If dying for glory - or suffering needlessly - is [almost] universally valued, then we're a sicker bunch of puppies than even than I realized.
Of course they were! We are born in sin and keep on sinning. Jesus made a deal - not that he had much choice - with an entity far less reliable than the devil is reputed to be - at least in popular fiction.
Google John R. Fox. When he and his soldiers were surrounded by the Germans in WWII, he called in artillery fire on his own position, thus killing himself, his troops and a bunch of Germans.
We gave him a medal - for killing himself and his troops. Because we thought that sacrifice was noble.
We also gave Paul Tibbets a medal. He killed upwards of 200,000 innocent people for his cause. If he had sacrificed himself in the process (which was a very real possibility) he would have been an even bigger hero.