Atheism=Theism?

Mr. Hamtastic

whackawhackado!
Registered Senior Member
Horrifying thought, isn't it?

Take a moment, however, and ask yourself, which category do I fit into? The two terms are poor lumps of people that make little real sense. A christian is not a pantheist is not a hindu is not a muslim... Yet we group all such belief into one word and call it diametrically opposed to Atheism.

Within my own religion, there are sects, and sects within those sects, that bring upon the shutting down of the mind into all of it's glory. I don't deny them, but I feel sorry for them, even as they accuse me of not being a "true" believer.

But the various sects of my religion, and the existence of various sects within others are all well known. I want to turn a clear eye towards atheism, for a moment.

What is atheism? Many atheists declare it to be a "lack of belief in a deity". Curiously, however, I doubt that they would readily admit to deifying themselves, which is what this does. You are the greatest consciousness to have ever existed. What else is a deity, but this?
That curiosity aside, if I lacked a belief in Extraterrestrials, I would not seek out members of SETI and tell them why they should cease their fruitless research. I obviously don't have the same convictions that some do, however.

Let us take a moment, and seperate the groups within the supergroup-Atheists, and see what we have.

First, there is the man with no interest in deity or supernatural things. It is silliness, and boring ritual to him. He holds the opinion, "To each his own" on the topic of religion, and so long as they leave him be, he returns the favor.

Second, there is the man who is unsure, but has chosen atheism. He tends to loudly declare his atheism in groups, and displays hatred for theism of any kind. "Theists are evil" might be something he would utter, just as a homophobe is likely to hate homosexuals publicly to ease his unsureness of his own sexuality, this man is a theophobe.

Thirdly, there is the man who has investigated various forms of theism, and has decided they are not for him. This may be a subgrouping within the first two groups, I'm not sure.

Finally, there is "the man of science". He does not make a god of himself or his intellect, but of science. He calls himself an atheist, due to a lack of language to describe him properly. This is the man who believes all things accepted by a group of scientists to be true. He has faith in science, I say faith here not to incense, but literally, because he himself has not explored everything he believes. He has not done the testing himself, rather he has been told about it, and thus accepts it. This man could be readily compared to the idle-minded theist sitting in a temple, believing whatever he is told.

Atheists don't operate as a group, usually, and much dissention is found within this supergroup. I am not sure how many other sects there are, nor if there are "popular" atheisms similar to the "popular" theisms, such as christianity, hinduism, Islam, and Judaism. There may be subgroups within subgroups within subgroups as well, not so easily noticed. Could the atheist pimp/drug-dealer be considered such? Similar to a cult leader?

This is just the top scrapings of this thought, and it is not meant to cause strife. I welcome all feedback, which combined with introspection, will be helpful to further delineate this thought. :)
 
Poor wording, perhaps. A part of the greatest group of consciousnesses to have ever existed? The deification of humanity, then?
 
Poor wording, perhaps. A part of the greatest group of consciousnesses to have ever existed? The deification of humanity, then?

First, "greatest consciousness" poses a problem.
Please try to elaborate on that.

Second, even if an atheist (or naturalist) will concede that, why is that deification?
Calling that deification assumes that a deity must necessarily exist, which an atheist would obviously take issue with.
 
hmmm greatest consciousness, compared to say, a gorilla. Deification of the innovative use of tools. Deification is the only word I have for considering anything as a "super" anything. Take environmentalism. If you believe the environment to be the MOST important thing in your reality, have you not deified the environment?

This is all supposing that consciousness=self awareness=the ability to think of more than itself.
 
If you believe the environment to be the MOST important thing in your reality, have you not deified the environment?

Or have you simply applied a great value to something?
I'm not sure how valuing something necessarily equates to deification.

If the most important thing in my life is my wife, for example, have I deified her, or simply acknowledged how important she is?

Deification, as far as I see it, implies holding something above yourself as divine and worthy of worship.
 
Right. You don't worship your wife? She's a very tolerant woman, then.

I still think it's a weakness of language, though. I think of-putting before my own apparent needs to meet theirs, or just to make them smile-as worship. When I was into wicca, I used to try to think myself into trees, and always came away with a sense of something magnificent. But that was not worship of the tree, but worship of Mother Earth, by trying to commune with a piece of Her.

Worship seems to mean alot of things, and we need specific words here.
 
Really, though, it seems like a pointless endeavor to me.
If you wordsmith it finely enough to express that atheists are theists, then it is nothing but words because there is quite obviously a distinction.

It would simply be prestilinguidation, or, in the brilliant words of Winston Churchill, "to varnish nonsense with the charms of sound."
 
about what? Worship of science is deification of science. Worship of self is deification of self. It really doesn't get any more precise. Perhaps a bit of further generalization might help though. Theists deify things besides their chosen gods as well. Christianity and Judaism have a specific rule about this overcoming your love and worship of your God, and I am ignorant of other religions rules regarding this.

Worship of your body is simple maintenance functions. Showering, deodorant, eating, trying to be healthy. Therefore your body is a god you worship. Deification. Can you suggest other wording?
 
Really, though, it seems like a pointless endeavor to me.
If you wordsmith it finely enough to express that atheists are theists, then it is nothing but words because there is quite obviously a distinction.

It would simply be prestilinguidation, or, in the brilliant words of Winston Churchill, "to varnish nonsense with the charms of sound."

You misunderstand my goal, then. I am making comparisons of supposed opposites and drawing conclusions from them. In truth, Atheism obviously is not Theism. Their similarities abound, however, and the classification of sects within the supersect of Atheism is the most important thing.

Or am I mistaken? Are all atheists the monastic same?
 
about what? Worship of science is deification of science. Worship of self is deification of self. It really doesn't get any more precise.

...

Worship of your body is simple maintenance functions. Showering, deodorant, eating, trying to be healthy. Therefore your body is a god you worship. Deification. Can you suggest other wording?

Again, why assume this is worship?
I am not a theist, but I certainly do not worship science - it is simply a tool.
 
What is atheism?

Didn't we just do this?

Many atheists declare it to be a "lack of belief in a deity".

I would say I lack trust in your unsubstantiated proclamations of deities since there aren't any actual deities being offered up.

Curiously, however, I doubt that they would readily admit to deifying themselves, which is what this does. You are the greatest consciousness to have ever existed.

So if I lack belief in unicorns does that make me the greatest unicorn that ever existed? Man if this works I'm in like Flynn!

What else is a deity, but this?

So far as I can tell a deity is glorified ignorance. A fancy way to say "not only do I have no clue, but I will hate any one who seeks a real answer."

tell them why they should cease their fruitless research.

Have I told you to stop your fruitless worship?

[misdefinitions of atheists snipped]

Your lack of insight into atheism is a wonder to behold. Isn't this lumping what you started out bitching against?
 
Atheists don't operate as a group, usually, and much dissention is found within this supergroup. I am not sure how many other sects there are, nor if there are "popular" atheisms similar to the "popular" theisms, such as christianity, hinduism, Islam, and Judaism. There may be subgroups within subgroups within subgroups as well, not so easily noticed. Could the atheist pimp/drug-dealer be considered such? Similar to a cult leader?

I think most atheists do not operate as a group because there is no group - they really have nothing in common other than a lack of belief in God(s).

Shall we try and compartmentalize and analyze those who don't play chess?
Why don't they join a club and have non-chess player meetings?
 
It would simply be prestilinguidation, or, in the brilliant words of Winston Churchill, "to varnish nonsense with the charms of sound."
Until you said this I was opposed to Ham's views and in support of yours. However, anyone who uses really long words and quotes Churchill, in the same sentence, deserves to be deified. I bow in obesiance oh great one.;)
 
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