Atheism & Theism...A Common Denominator

[Dywyddyr]

Dywyddyr,
The burden of proof rests with you the proponent of the position. uke:

Can't even read your own posts now?
You were the one that made the initial statements, I'm arguing against them.

I agree, we cannot think of things we have not seen or heard.

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2343959&postcount=327

Okay, I'm about done. Math develops concepts. Everything evolves and science has accepted that as fact.

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2344052&postcount=339
(Incidentally the final sentence in that is invalidated by the comment I quoted in my post #366 - it's recognised by science and psychology that ideas do come out "of nowhere" to some people).

I think I'm done with you if you can't even keep track of who's saying what.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

i think you missed the point. i interpreted what he said to mean that there's plenty of food around and people are still starving, because man's intent is not to feed people, but to make money doing it. it's kind of the same thing with evidence of god. there's plenty around to be had but lots of people have intentions that conflict with the desire to recognize it.

Why shouldn't farmers get paid. I don't want to do it. How do you expect the farmer to stay farming? If the farmer wasn't paid you'd be farming. Would you farm for yourself or the world?

What about drought, disease, plagues of insects? Farmers don't get paid if they don't have a crop. How eager are you to help the guy out when he's down on his luck? Nah, I don't buy your argument at all.

People who are standing around idle while they starve to death have to take matters into their own hands. Perhaps in extremis they can turn to cannibalism at least until conditions improve. Don't get your knickers in a knot over that comment but that's my point. Some of these people have been offered more help than all the legitimate farmers in the world combined yet they constantly ignore everything they've been taught or given. This I have seen with my own eyes. Tractors lay rusting in the field because the gas to run them is apparently more useful somewhere else.

 

[rjr6]

I don't know whether to or :bawl: with that one.

I don't know how old you are but for your own sake stop and take a good look at what you just said and why you said it. Has logic, reason & common sense left their end of the teeter-totter?

It's like you're saying God created man last because it takes Him six days to prepare dinner for us, starting with building a nice place to eat and then bringing on the feast. Somewhere out in deep space there's an illuminated sandwich board that says Welcome to God's Diner.

this made me laugh, but i think you missed the point. i interpreted what he said to mean that there's plenty of food around and people are still starving, because man's intent is not to feed people, but to make money doing it. it's kind of the same thing with evidence of god. there's plenty around to be had but lots of people have intentions that conflict with the desire to recognize it.

Why shouldn't farmers get paid. I don't want to do it. How do you expect the farmer to stay farming? If the farmer wasn't paid you'd be farming. Would you farm for yourself or the world?

What about drought, disease, plagues of insects? Farmers don't get paid if they don't have a crop. How eager are you to help the guy out when he's down on his luck? Nah, I don't buy your argument at all.

People who are standing around idle while they starve to death have to take matters into their own hands. Perhaps in extremis they can turn to cannibalism at least until conditions improve. Don't get your knickers in a knot over that comment but that's my point. Some of these people have been offered more help than all the legitimate farmers in the world combined yet they constantly ignore everything they've been taught or given. This I have seen with my own eyes. Tractors lay rusting in the field because the gas to run them is apparently more useful somewhere else.

An emaciated body would not make much of a meal. Maybe God feels the same way about an atheist's spiritual growth as you do about these described lazy, shiftless people who apparently won't feed themselves or feed on one another.

 

[jpappl]

Maybe God feels the same way about an atheist's spiritual growth

How do you measure spiritual growth ?

 

[Enmos]

How do you measure spiritual growth ?

I couldn't find a picture of the right model though..

 

[jpappl]

I couldn't find a picture of the right model though..

reminds me of a joke.

Why aren't women good at construction ?

Because they think "holds hands apart about 4 inches" is 6 inches.

 

[earth]

Dywyddyr,
The burden of proof rests with you the proponent of your position. You a joker, smile.

 

[earth]

Dywyddyr,
I laid it out for joker. You know what strike three is. Jokers always weasel.

 

[SnakeLord]

Man has been given the evidence that food keeps humans from dying. God has provided for man in such a way that man could eliminate starvationp.

Predation is evidence of gods? Yes, food helps prevent humans, (and other living organisms), from dying. How is that evidence of gods?

 

[earth]

delete

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

An emaciated body would not make much of a meal. Maybe God feels the same way about an atheist's spiritual growth as you do about these described lazy, shiftless people who apparently won't feed themselves or feed on one another.

Beats starving. Don't take it so seriously. Go read Soylent Green.

Maybe God this, maybe God that....it's all I ever see or hear. Except from Adstar who tells you what God is going to do. Aside from him (not a believer but someone who knows) and possibly Lori the rest of the religious backers in here are strictly guessers or theists. None of them know a single thing about the God they worship. They know as much about God as your local atheist.

There's at least two major religions that accept the words of so called prophets as gospel. Unfortunately they both differ, just to add to the confusion. They say the oldest religion is Hinduism but it isn't the most popular worldwide so even that makes it more confusing. Why can't there be only one because that's all there should be.

Did our species think of God first or did our former Neanderthal friends (whose burial sites appear to show signs of worship)? Those Neanderthals were also created in God's image, no? Why do I get the feeling that God is just caveman philosophy and quite possibly one of the oldest relics of a bygone age?

 

[Dywyddyr]

Dywyddyr,
The burden of proof rests with you the proponent of your position. You a joker, smile.

Wrong: as I said - you made the proposition, I'm arguing against it.

Dywyddyr,
I laid it out for joker. You know what strike three is. Jokers always weasel.

Aw, wrong again.
You made a statement and supported it with isolated cases.
That doesn't make the proposition true as a whole (as shown by my example).
Hard luck.

 

[rjr6]

How do you measure spiritual growth ?

To use an expression, finding God

 

[rjr6]

Beats starving. Don't take it so seriously. Go read Soylent Green.

Maybe God this, maybe God that....it's all I ever see or hear. Except from Adstar who tells you what God is going to do. Aside from him (not a believer but someone who knows) and possibly Lori the rest of the religious backers in here are strictly guessers or theists. None of them know a single thing about the God they worship. They know as much about God as your local atheist.

There's at least two major religions that accept the words of so called prophets as gospel. Unfortunately they both differ, just to add to the confusion. They say the oldest religion is Hinduism but it isn't the most popular worldwide so even that makes it more confusing. Why can't there be only one because that's all there should be.

Did our species think of God first or did our former Neanderthal friends (whose burial sites appear to show signs of worship)? Those Neanderthals were also created in God's image, no? Why do I get the feeling that God is just caveman philosophy and quite possibly one of the oldest relics of a bygone age?

Works alone will not get you closer to God. Only God knows the heart of any person.

 

[earth]

Wrong: as I said - you made the proposition, I'm arguing against it.

Hard luck.

Now you know the reason for a Joker recognization. Its because of people who twist things and back peddle.

The proposition came from you that one could find "spring out of nowhere" within technology. I couldn't find such an occurrence and you fell short.

I didn't make that proposition. You a joker, smile

 

[earth]

You made a statement and supported it with isolated cases.
That doesn't make the proposition true as a whole (as shown by my example).
Hard luck.

Where is that "spring out of nowhere" in technology, example? You a joker, smile

 

[earth]

Dywyddyr,
You come back with the most unbelievable bullshit.

333.……How about the “spring out of nowhere” 100% new for us to view?…….333

 

[earth]

Originally Posted by Psychotic Episode…..post #323
Experience is suggestive. I always consider the reasons for my thoughts and every time it is the result of a suggestion. In my mind I couldn't possibly think about something I never experienced or come across through daily life.

Can you tell me if you have ever thought of anything you've never experienced in real life? Tell me anything about something no one including yourself has yet to experience. You can't do it.

Originally Posted by earth……post#327
I agree, we cannot think of things we have not seen or heard.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr……#328
People think of non-experienced/ seen things every single day.
For some it's a regular part of their job

.

Dywyddyr,
This is stating your opinion only and certainly not posting any actual evidence. Faithfully take your word for it is also another opinion you have possessing you.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr…..#333
At what point in history?
Who'd seen or heard a jet engine before Whittle got to work?
Who'd seen or heard a printing press before Guttenberg started?
Who'd seen or heard a computer before Turing got to work?
Etc.
If no one ever thought of anything that hadn't been seen or heard of before we wouldn't have anywhere near the technologywe do now.
Scientific advance is based on thinking of stuff that no one has thought of before.

Dywyddyr,
No evidence in this post. Just tossing in a few names. Taking the position, “technology can spring out of nowhere” is credulous. I don’t believe technology can “spring out of nowhere” and I’m not required to prove it does. However, I did give you two examples where the printing press and internet didn‘t “spring out of nowhere” to refute your statement. What evidence? You posted in a manner as though you were expecting me to go look it up if I didn’t know it. I did go look it up and you sucked. You said think, think, think and I’m saying I’am, I’am. I’am.
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post #340

Posted by earth
Okay, I'm about done. Math develops concepts.

Dywyddyr
Nonsense.
You have to have the concept before you can put numbers to it.

Posted by earth
Everything evolves and science has accepted that as fact.

Dywyddyr
That's rubbish.
Living things evolve.
Technology can evolve or “spring out of nowhere.”

Posted by earth
Inventing something is giving credit to a person who makes the first one from things observable. Puting it all together.

Dywyddyr
Like I said: a very narrow definition.
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Dywyddyr,
Everything evolves and science has accepted that as fact. You think not, then prove Science wrong opinionated.

Present evidence proving technology “springs out of nowhere“.
Present evidence proving Scientific advancements “spring out of nowhere“ without assessment, research and examination. From anything never thought of before.


Present evidence proving Scientific advancements can “spring out of nowhere.“ My thinking, that would have to happen without any assessment, research and examination. My thinking, without funding science isn’t going anywhere, currently. No money, no assessment, no research, no examination yet Scientific Advancements and or technology can “spring out of nowhere.” Prove it. Btw, scientific disciplines are the process by which reliable facts can gather together, thereby developing scientific knowledge. Science evidence does not “spring out of nowhere.“ The basis for Scientific advance is within the facts understood using human thinking skills gathering scientific data and assembling that information.

Your opinion is like the fabled technology you said, “springs out of nowhere“. Find something coming from anything never thought of before. You will find links to things in the enviorment at the time of the invention. No out of nowhere thoughts, actually


You and Lori7 should get together. Both you and Lori7’s opinions have, considering the differing subject matter in question, a commonality, “springs out of nowhere“.

Set up and explain providing evidence your opinion has validity. You sprinkled your opinion onto my observation. I’m Still Waiting for you to make your opinion worthy.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Dywyddyr, You come back with the most unbelievable bullshit.

Keep trying.

Dywyddyr,
No evidence in this post. Just tossing in a few names. Taking the position, “technology can spring out of nowhere” is credulous. I don’t believe technology can “spring out of nowhere” and I’m not required to prove it does.

Ah you see: you don't believe, but you can't prove it.
Not required?
Double standards?
You claim I'm required to prove my position (although I'm simply refuting your specious claim), but YOU don't need to prove YOUR position?

However, I did give you two examples where the printing press and internet didn‘t “spring out of nowhere” to refute your statement.

The way showing me two white swans proves all swans are white?

Okay, I'm about done. Math develops concepts.

Wrong again.
Maths supports or shows a concept to be wrong.

Everything evolves and science has accepted that as fact.

And as the article I linked to shows, that is wrong too.

Everything evolves and science has accepted that as fact. You think not, then prove Science wrong opinionated.

But science doesn't state that everything evolves.

Kekulé - molecules & benzene structure
Elias Howe - sewing machine mechanism
To list two.

 

[earth]

Dywyddyr,
You come back with the most unbelievable bullshit. Okay Mr. Joker back to this.

333.……How about the “spring out of nowhere” 100% new for us to view?…….333