Atheism/Satanism/Humanism/New World Religion
- Thread starter Jan Ardena
- Start date
Cris,
There are lots of cases where people existed but there are no "official" documents to support their existence. Does this mean they never existed?
What if there are records (aside from mentions from Flavius Josephius) which were hidden/destroyed/info suppressed?
By whom?
How would it be possible to support that claim to your satisfaction?
You, or I for that matter, have not been witnessed to it, but that doesn't mean it is not possible.
Jan Ardena.
There are lots of cases where people existed but there are no "official" documents to support their existence. Does this mean they never existed?
What if there are records (aside from mentions from Flavius Josephius) which were hidden/destroyed/info suppressed?
By whom?
How would it be possible to support that claim to your satisfaction?
You, or I for that matter, have not been witnessed to it, but that doesn't mean it is not possible.
Jan Ardena.
Jan Ardena said:
Jan,
Could you please explain a little more of what you mean by this?
Thanks
James R,
I'm not talking about 'a religion', I'm talking about the basic principle which are present in all God-centered religions, such as the ten commandments. The rules are already there so there needn't be any mistakes. And the principles would satisfy every sane human being.
The government need only to be wise.
Belief in supernatural force or entities is just that, as is belief in a politician, idea, or self. A religion is a way of life, suggesting the way to complete fulfiliment. It can either be spiritual or physical. You get out what you put in.
The original religion is God given as in, this is how you live your life if you want to come back to Godhead, your natural position. From there you have religions where people worship gods (as in 'demi
, these people are interested in acquiring wealth to enhance their own pleasure, well being, and that of their families. Then there are religions where people worship ancestors, then there are religions where people worship ghosts and spirits, and religions where people worship themselves pandering to their sensual desires, eventually believing themselves to be God. Every person falls in one or some of these categories.
Yes, but they understand (sub-consciously at least) what 'religion' is.
The Christian fundamentalists are no real threat because the institute of Christianity does not hold God as its authority.
The Islamic fundamentalists surrender only to God as their authority. In other words, they don't fit into the new world order.
Again, religion is a way of life and one has to act according to his particular situation. For example, if the law of the land says stoning is unlawful, then the law must be obeyed. In the west we criticise Islamic laws saying they are barbaric. But before Mohammad (PBUH) was given the authority to install the teachings of Islam, the society which prevailed had degenerated to complete madness. So the religion was created for that particular time, place and circumstance, not that that law is the religion itself. The religion itself, like all other bona-fide religions, is a guide to elevate the human to a position where he can discriminate with clear intelligence. These principles are not subject to any particular time, place or circumstance.
Which laws?
If you take that to its full conclusion it is nothing more than self-centeredness, which is the tenant of atheism, humanism and Satanism.
Some maybe, some maybe not.
Soviet Union?
What aspect of their religion adheres to the basic principles or laws of the commandments?
How do you know it has nothing to do with God?
How long have you been on this planet, 30,50, 80 years?
They are not my commandments, they are Gods commandments according to the words of His devotees (fictional or non-fictional).
There are some people who naturally adhere to some or all of these principles, in spite of being atheist or theist, because it is their nature, and there are some who need to be advised in how to act, hence the commandments. As I said earlier, Religion is distributed according to particular times, places and circumstances, and though the point/aim of the principles always remains the same, the method may change, because people are different.
Good character, good intelligence.
I understand that there is one God.
Please state the obvious.
That’s because it is wide.
No need to apologise for using the dictionary.
Jan Ardena.
I'm not talking about 'a religion', I'm talking about the basic principle which are present in all God-centered religions, such as the ten commandments. The rules are already there so there needn't be any mistakes. And the principles would satisfy every sane human being.
The government need only to be wise.
Belief in supernatural force or entities is just that, as is belief in a politician, idea, or self. A religion is a way of life, suggesting the way to complete fulfiliment. It can either be spiritual or physical. You get out what you put in.
The original religion is God given as in, this is how you live your life if you want to come back to Godhead, your natural position. From there you have religions where people worship gods (as in 'demi
, these people are interested in acquiring wealth to enhance their own pleasure, well being, and that of their families. Then there are religions where people worship ancestors, then there are religions where people worship ghosts and spirits, and religions where people worship themselves pandering to their sensual desires, eventually believing themselves to be God. Every person falls in one or some of these categories.Yes, but they understand (sub-consciously at least) what 'religion' is.
The Christian fundamentalists are no real threat because the institute of Christianity does not hold God as its authority.
The Islamic fundamentalists surrender only to God as their authority. In other words, they don't fit into the new world order.
Again, religion is a way of life and one has to act according to his particular situation. For example, if the law of the land says stoning is unlawful, then the law must be obeyed. In the west we criticise Islamic laws saying they are barbaric. But before Mohammad (PBUH) was given the authority to install the teachings of Islam, the society which prevailed had degenerated to complete madness. So the religion was created for that particular time, place and circumstance, not that that law is the religion itself. The religion itself, like all other bona-fide religions, is a guide to elevate the human to a position where he can discriminate with clear intelligence. These principles are not subject to any particular time, place or circumstance.
Which laws?
If you take that to its full conclusion it is nothing more than self-centeredness, which is the tenant of atheism, humanism and Satanism.
Some maybe, some maybe not.
Soviet Union?
What aspect of their religion adheres to the basic principles or laws of the commandments?
How do you know it has nothing to do with God?
How long have you been on this planet, 30,50, 80 years?
They are not my commandments, they are Gods commandments according to the words of His devotees (fictional or non-fictional).
There are some people who naturally adhere to some or all of these principles, in spite of being atheist or theist, because it is their nature, and there are some who need to be advised in how to act, hence the commandments. As I said earlier, Religion is distributed according to particular times, places and circumstances, and though the point/aim of the principles always remains the same, the method may change, because people are different.
Good character, good intelligence.
I understand that there is one God.
Please state the obvious.
That’s because it is wide.
No need to apologise for using the dictionary.
Jan Ardena.
Light Travelling said:
Lord Buddha is classed as an incarnation of God (21st), he appears at the begining of kali-yuga (the age of quarrel and hypocracy). At this time religious principles begin to decay to allow for kali-yuga to become prominent. The brahmin culture begins to become affected by the age, and as a result start sacrificing cows in the name of Vishnu (God). Lord Buddha appeared to entice the fallen brahmins away from their activities by tricking them into believing the vedas is false and there is no God. Which is why it is an atheistic religion.
Buddhism is the start of religion in this age.
Jan Ardena.
no he's not classed as an incarnation of God, but he is venerated as a god.Jan Ardena said:
and it cant be an atheistic religion, because it believe in reincarnation, which is more supernatural mumbo jumbo. and atheism is not a religion, you find that hard to grasp. dont you.
pavlosmarcos,
This subject is not as straight foreward as it seems and needs in depth discussion.
It is atheist because it does not believe in GOD. Atheists do not believe in God.
In and of itself, atheism is not a religion and neither is theism. But atheism is necessary for humanism and satanism which are religions.
Jan Ardena.
This subject is not as straight foreward as it seems and needs in depth discussion.
It is atheist because it does not believe in GOD. Atheists do not believe in God.
In and of itself, atheism is not a religion and neither is theism. But atheism is necessary for humanism and satanism which are religions.
Jan Ardena.
Jan and a few others will doubtless recognize this post, since there is a similar conversation going on elsewhere. But I think it's relevant....
Atheists not only reject gods (Yahweh, Elohim, Ba'al, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, Fei Lian, Shiva, Anshar, Osiris, Baldur, etc.) but the supernatural in general.
Satanism requires heavy use of the supernatural. And, while some would state that "Satan" isn't the satanic god/deity, it is clearly not true.
"There is indeed, great power In magic, but one must be prepared to take advantage of this power (LaVey 1969)."
Clearly, LaVey is assuming the existence of some power that exists beyond what is natural or can be explained by science.
"This is why the Devil has always had it so easy, ruling the world. The spiritual, the higher planes, the concert of God, is basically an intellectual development, an idealistic invention—and must be thought about in order to function. On the other hand the necessities, desires, indulgences, and compulsions are purely emotional and need no analysis to put them into operation! Therefore the aspiring witch or warlock should learn well the importance of emotional appeal (LaVey 1969) "
The "Devil" (Satan) is personalized and assumed a deity (he "rules the world"). Additional mention of the supernatural in the assumption that people can truly aspire to be witches or warlocks.
As an anthropologist, however, what I find most intriguing about the Satanic Religion is that morality still finds its way in the society. Certainly, a devout Christian who has always been taught that Satan is pure evil and that "Satanists" worship their leige by commiting acts of evil would expect that the Satanic Bible's equivalent of the Ten Commandments to be in direct opposition of biblical principle (i.e. instead of "Thou Shalt not Kill," there would be "Kill when able to get away with it" or some such extreme rule).
Yet, when we examine LaVey's bible, it opens with a list of sins which include: stupidity, pretentiousness, slopsism, self-decit, herd conformity, lack of perspective, forgetfulness of past orthodoxies, counterproductive pride, and lack of aesthetics (LaVey 1987).
Likewise, LaVey's The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth give some rules for the society to follow. They deal with showing respect and courtesy to others and for dealing with those that are treating the Satanist badly. Among them are rules prohibiting unwelcome sexual advances, prohibitions of harming children, and of harming non-human animals. Though the rules encourage harming those that have harmed the Satanist -only after asking the assailant to stop first, however (LaVey 1967)!
One would expect that those that worship Satan, the figure and representative of all that is evil in the Christian worldview, to encourage violence and evil acts. And yet they don't.
From an atheistic perspective, this is obviously because morality and social order is a human or even a natural imperative, not a religious or supernatural one. Even among non-human primate societies, social order is often strictly adhered to and politics are evident.
Satanists may not worship God, but they acknowledge the god as actually existing. Otherwise, there would be no reason to be oppossed to god, which Satanists are. Indeed, satanists believe in the deity of "Satan." You and I are both atheistic with regard to the existence of Thor, Ba'al, and Quetzalcoatl (assuming that you've heard of any of these gods). I go a step further and refuse to acknowledge the existence of the white-man's gods (Yahweh, Elohim, Jesus, Allah, Satan, etc.). The Satanist acknowledges the existence of Satan. It is this deity that the Satanist believes his/her magic originates.
"My daughter constantly badgers me on the topic of magic. Knowing that she and I are both witches, she continuously asks me to “teach her magic.” So I came up with a fun “ritual” which she can perform before bedtime that is simple and effective for her—and has relieved some of the badgering. When she reaches a maturity level that will enable her to see further possibilities of her inner power, I may offer her more, Satan willing . . . (Gage 1995).
There is a clear agenda among Christian leaders to "demonize" those things in society that they deem immoral or against their doctrine and dogma. This is for the purpose of creating an "other" which can act as a common enemy for a given Christian cult's members. This "other" can be gays, drug users, satanists, atheists, liberals (a church in North or South Carolina recently gained publicity when its pastor announced that anyone who voted Democrat was unwelcome in the congregation), etc. Many Christian cults combine one or more of these groups often using fallacious statements like non sequitors in the attempt.
Much like: "They are all the same thing when it boils down to it. The point is none of you believe in God." Clearly a non-sequitor since atheists do not believe in any supernatural force whereas the satanist clearly does as I demonstrated above. The verbage in their doctrines are contridictory, some anthropomorphize Satan as a single, anthropomorphic deity. Other passages in the same texts claim that Satan isn't a single deity but the "force of nature" or the "sense of self" in all people. But, if this were strictly adhered to, it would be Deism, not atheism.
Atheists are not "anti-god." In order to oppose a deity, you must acknowledge the deity to begin with. God, most probably doesn't exist, particularly not in the manner that the White-man has invented by borrowing and stealing attributes and characteristics from the gods of other, older cultures of the world. Atheists don't oppose the Christian god (it doesn't exist), they oppose the believers of this god (they do exist). Not all atheists actively oppose theists. I would bet that most don't, but if you travel to science and religion internet boards, you will certainly meet many of those that do.
I'm always amazed when Christians encounter those that question their beliefs and appear affronted when they are opposed.
If those that belong to Christian cults want to proslytize in boards like this or discuss their beliefs and distaste for atheism, they must be prepared for rebuttal and criticism. Not that you aren't.
To compare atheism with satanism is a non-sequitor. It doesn't follow in the least that atheism is equivalent to satanism. Nor does it follow that humanism is equivalent to satanism. Members of each group may agree with one or more points or beliefs, but that doesn't imply equality. I agree with much of the teachings of the alleged Christ. I'm not christian.
References:
Gage, Lydia (1995). Encouraging Magical Concepts. Found on the Church of Satan website.
LaVey, Anton (1967). The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth.
LaVey, Anton (1969). Letters from the Devil. The National Insider Vol. 14, No. 17
LaVey, Anton (1987). The Nine Satanic Sins. From: The Satanic Bible
Atheists not only reject gods (Yahweh, Elohim, Ba'al, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, Fei Lian, Shiva, Anshar, Osiris, Baldur, etc.) but the supernatural in general.
Satanism requires heavy use of the supernatural. And, while some would state that "Satan" isn't the satanic god/deity, it is clearly not true.
"There is indeed, great power In magic, but one must be prepared to take advantage of this power (LaVey 1969)."
Clearly, LaVey is assuming the existence of some power that exists beyond what is natural or can be explained by science.
"This is why the Devil has always had it so easy, ruling the world. The spiritual, the higher planes, the concert of God, is basically an intellectual development, an idealistic invention—and must be thought about in order to function. On the other hand the necessities, desires, indulgences, and compulsions are purely emotional and need no analysis to put them into operation! Therefore the aspiring witch or warlock should learn well the importance of emotional appeal (LaVey 1969) "
The "Devil" (Satan) is personalized and assumed a deity (he "rules the world"). Additional mention of the supernatural in the assumption that people can truly aspire to be witches or warlocks.
As an anthropologist, however, what I find most intriguing about the Satanic Religion is that morality still finds its way in the society. Certainly, a devout Christian who has always been taught that Satan is pure evil and that "Satanists" worship their leige by commiting acts of evil would expect that the Satanic Bible's equivalent of the Ten Commandments to be in direct opposition of biblical principle (i.e. instead of "Thou Shalt not Kill," there would be "Kill when able to get away with it" or some such extreme rule).
Yet, when we examine LaVey's bible, it opens with a list of sins which include: stupidity, pretentiousness, slopsism, self-decit, herd conformity, lack of perspective, forgetfulness of past orthodoxies, counterproductive pride, and lack of aesthetics (LaVey 1987).
Likewise, LaVey's The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth give some rules for the society to follow. They deal with showing respect and courtesy to others and for dealing with those that are treating the Satanist badly. Among them are rules prohibiting unwelcome sexual advances, prohibitions of harming children, and of harming non-human animals. Though the rules encourage harming those that have harmed the Satanist -only after asking the assailant to stop first, however (LaVey 1967)!
One would expect that those that worship Satan, the figure and representative of all that is evil in the Christian worldview, to encourage violence and evil acts. And yet they don't.
From an atheistic perspective, this is obviously because morality and social order is a human or even a natural imperative, not a religious or supernatural one. Even among non-human primate societies, social order is often strictly adhered to and politics are evident.
I realize that this quote was referring to Buddhists, but I've inferred that you apply the same logic to satanist beliefs, so I'll use that line of thought here.Jan Ardena said:
Satanists may not worship God, but they acknowledge the god as actually existing. Otherwise, there would be no reason to be oppossed to god, which Satanists are. Indeed, satanists believe in the deity of "Satan." You and I are both atheistic with regard to the existence of Thor, Ba'al, and Quetzalcoatl (assuming that you've heard of any of these gods). I go a step further and refuse to acknowledge the existence of the white-man's gods (Yahweh, Elohim, Jesus, Allah, Satan, etc.). The Satanist acknowledges the existence of Satan. It is this deity that the Satanist believes his/her magic originates.
"My daughter constantly badgers me on the topic of magic. Knowing that she and I are both witches, she continuously asks me to “teach her magic.” So I came up with a fun “ritual” which she can perform before bedtime that is simple and effective for her—and has relieved some of the badgering. When she reaches a maturity level that will enable her to see further possibilities of her inner power, I may offer her more, Satan willing . . . (Gage 1995).
There is a clear agenda among Christian leaders to "demonize" those things in society that they deem immoral or against their doctrine and dogma. This is for the purpose of creating an "other" which can act as a common enemy for a given Christian cult's members. This "other" can be gays, drug users, satanists, atheists, liberals (a church in North or South Carolina recently gained publicity when its pastor announced that anyone who voted Democrat was unwelcome in the congregation), etc. Many Christian cults combine one or more of these groups often using fallacious statements like non sequitors in the attempt.
Much like: "They are all the same thing when it boils down to it. The point is none of you believe in God." Clearly a non-sequitor since atheists do not believe in any supernatural force whereas the satanist clearly does as I demonstrated above. The verbage in their doctrines are contridictory, some anthropomorphize Satan as a single, anthropomorphic deity. Other passages in the same texts claim that Satan isn't a single deity but the "force of nature" or the "sense of self" in all people. But, if this were strictly adhered to, it would be Deism, not atheism.
Atheists are not "anti-god." In order to oppose a deity, you must acknowledge the deity to begin with. God, most probably doesn't exist, particularly not in the manner that the White-man has invented by borrowing and stealing attributes and characteristics from the gods of other, older cultures of the world. Atheists don't oppose the Christian god (it doesn't exist), they oppose the believers of this god (they do exist). Not all atheists actively oppose theists. I would bet that most don't, but if you travel to science and religion internet boards, you will certainly meet many of those that do.
I'm always amazed when Christians encounter those that question their beliefs and appear affronted when they are opposed.
If those that belong to Christian cults want to proslytize in boards like this or discuss their beliefs and distaste for atheism, they must be prepared for rebuttal and criticism. Not that you aren't.
To compare atheism with satanism is a non-sequitor. It doesn't follow in the least that atheism is equivalent to satanism. Nor does it follow that humanism is equivalent to satanism. Members of each group may agree with one or more points or beliefs, but that doesn't imply equality. I agree with much of the teachings of the alleged Christ. I'm not christian.
References:
Gage, Lydia (1995). Encouraging Magical Concepts. Found on the Church of Satan website.
LaVey, Anton (1967). The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth.
LaVey, Anton (1969). Letters from the Devil. The National Insider Vol. 14, No. 17
LaVey, Anton (1987). The Nine Satanic Sins. From: The Satanic Bible
The Devil is a gentleman... _SHAKESPEARE
Of course not, that would endager their cult. They murder in other ways, or in secret.
Man is a social animal, like the bumble bee or ape. He is also a rational animal, this is what makes Man special, able to worship the proper god.
Those who are not of our Fold we pray for, but not all who claim to be christians are charitable. Some are driven by hate.
Satan is a person as well, an angelic being created by God. He seeks to insult God by destroying His creations on earth and imprisoning souls in Hell. What some texts claim, Im sure you know, is not the same as established doctrines. We have announced long ago, as early as 1215 AD, that to say that Satan is just a force or sense is erroroneous.
To say that someone does not exist is to murder them in your intention, to seek their destruction at the most basic level of BEING. Thus, abortionists say "the fetus is not human, is not alive" so that they can commit murder with a free conscience. To say I dont exist or you or God doesnt exist is also a lie, which opposes and seeks to murder Truth. God is a (3) persons, just because a person is unseeable does not mean they dont exist. You cant see me, you never have, but I exist.
Atheism is practical Satanism. By denying His Existance once youve heard of it you do the following: You betray your Creator, you deny his power and Dominion over your soul, you hand his image over to death, you betray your King by your intention, you offer your living family and relatives over to the spiritual slaughter of Satan, you do not defend your beloved, you take up with the enemy, you lie and commit highest treason, you declare God's Sovranty non-existant (along with his being,) you usurp rulership and go into league with Darkness and the Abyss.
Atheism is practical Satanism.
That is incorrect, Satan believes god exists.
By denying His Existance once youve heard of it you do the following: You betray your Creator
I also deny Santa Claus and the tooth fairy, although I have heard of them. But I cannot deny the invisible purple dragon living in my attic, yet no one told me of it.
I suppose you do not deny unicorns?
That is incorrect, Satan believes god exists.
By denying His Existance once youve heard of it you do the following: You betray your Creator
I also deny Santa Claus and the tooth fairy, although I have heard of them. But I cannot deny the invisible purple dragon living in my attic, yet no one told me of it.
I suppose you do not deny unicorns?
Only the ignorant or the fearful settle for equating atheism with satanism. One involves belief. One involves a lack of belief. Moreover, acknowledging the existence of one man's god implies denying that of another. Why should I settle for the white-man's religion as being the creator of all things when there are so many religions of the world that claim the same? What if it turns out that it is one of these, or even one yet to be discovered, that is the true religion of the true deity (or deities)?Lawdog said:
There is only the say-so of the white-man that his religion is the correct one. Only the say-so of the white-man that his god spoke to the white-man and proclaimed it true. This same white-man that raped, murdered, and piliged the world from its rightful inhabitants.
ahehee
Hi SkinWalker,
That was a very insightful essay. Thanks.
Quote Skin:
"There is only the say-so of the white-man that his religion is the correct one. Only the say-so of the white-man that his god spoke to the white-man and proclaimed it true. This same white-man that raped, murdered, and piliged the world from its rightful inhabitants."
* May I then venture to state that the white man`s religion caused and still causes great "division" in this world? Do all religions cause division?
That was a very insightful essay. Thanks.
Quote Skin:
"There is only the say-so of the white-man that his religion is the correct one. Only the say-so of the white-man that his god spoke to the white-man and proclaimed it true. This same white-man that raped, murdered, and piliged the world from its rightful inhabitants."
* May I then venture to state that the white man`s religion caused and still causes great "division" in this world? Do all religions cause division?