Atheism ( not a bad thing)

fahrenheit 451

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atheism ( is not a bad thing)


In Atheism, Ayn Rand, and Other Heresies (Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Books, 1991)
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good."


This famous biblical passage captures the essence of how the average religious person views atheism. Atheism is probably the least popular, and least understood, philosophical position in the world today. The very word "atheist" often conjures up the image of an immoral, dangerous cynic - an apostle of destructive negativism.


Atheism, to put it simply, has suffered from bad press. Christians have spent a good deal of their 2,000-year history fretting over disbelievers, and a major weapon in their arsenal has been the portrayal of disbelief as the most horrendous of evils, deserving of the most severe punishment. Jesus, according to the New Testament, threatened that nonbelievers shall be thrown "into the furnace of fire" where "men will weep and gnash their teeth." The medieval theologian Thomas Aquinas, perhaps the greatest mind in Catholic history, taught "the sin of unbelief is greater than any sin that occurs in the perversion of morals," and he recommended that the heretic "be exterminated from the world by death."


It has been common for centuries to label atheism a spiritual or moral disease. Typical of this trend is a book written in 1878, titled The Natural History of Atheism, wherein the author refers to "the atheistic disease" that results from a "moral disorder of the reasonable creature." The author divides atheists into two categories: "atheistic incapables" and "atheistic monsters," and he argues that these result from "the morbid atheistic pathology."


Can we dismiss such statements as the irrational ravings of a past age? Unfortunately, no. Similar sentiments, if not asserted in such extreme language, are found today among both Catholic and Protestant theologians. A Catholic priest, writing in 1971, refers to atheism as "the most serious spiritual affliction of modern man," as "a destructive, voracious parasite," and as a disease that is "rapidly becoming virulent." Similarly, a distinguished theologian representing the Protestant evangelical movement wrote a book recently in which he proclaims, "The essence of sin is unbelief." And what is the punishment for sin, according to the theologian? He lists: "guilt, death, hell, moral servitude, and spiritual blindness." Such, we are to believe, is the destiny of the atheist.


In these commentaries I shall examine various intellectual and social issues from an atheistic perspective. As my previous remarks indicate, however, an atheist is bound to encounter a great deal of prejudicial misinformation about his position. Therefore, in order to set the record straight from the beginning, I shall now address, as briefly as possible, some of the questions most commonly asked about atheism.


What is an atheist? An atheist is a person who does not believe in the existence of a god, i.e., in the existence of a supernatural being.


Why doesn't the atheist believe in a god? Quite simply, because belief in a god is unreasonable.


Can the atheist prove that a god does not exist? The atheist need not "prove" the nonexistence of a god, just as one who does not believe in magic elves, fairies, and gremlins does not have to prove their nonexistence. A person who asserts the existence of something assumes the burden of proof. The theist, or god-believer, asserts the existence of a god and must prove the claim. If the theist fails in this task, reasonable people will reject the belief as groundless. Atheists do not believe in a god because there is no reason they should.


But haven't philosophers proved the existence of a god? No. All such attempts have failed. Most philosophers and theologians now concede that belief in a god must rest on faith, not on reason.


Then why not accept the existence of a god on faith? Because to believe on faith is to defy and abandon the judgment of one's mind. Faith conflicts with reason. It cannot give you knowledge; it can only delude you into believing that you know more than you really do. Faith is intellectually dishonest, and it should be rejected by every person of integrity.


Isn't it possible for reason to err? Yes, reason is fallible, but this calls for a more diligent and conscientious use of reason, not its abandonment. Our eyesight may occasionally fail us or lead us astray, but this does not mean that we should blind ourselves or walk with our eyes closed.


But don't people need to believe in a god? No. First and foremost, a person needs to know the truth, for this is the basic means by which we function successfully in the world. To say that a person needs to believe in the irrational is a prescription for disaster.


Is atheism immoral? Far from it. An honest, carefully examined conviction can never be immoral. On the contrary, the scrupulous use of one's reason is a supreme virtue.


How can there be meaning and purpose to life without a god? This is a matter of personal responsibility. Only you, the individual, can decide whether to live your life with meaning and purpose. Pushing the responsibility onto a mysterious god is an escape, not a solution.


Why is atheism important? Atheism is important because it is reasonable, and reason is of crucial importance in human affairs. Atheism is an alternative to the morass of irrational, antimind doctrines found in various religions.


Why, then, should I consider atheism? Because you owe it to yourself to examine the issue of religious belief carefully and to reach the best judgment you can. Never, never doubt the efficacy of your mind. Never allow others, through pressure or intimidation, to cloud your judgment. If you decide that atheism is a reasonable position, then adopt it with pride and dignity. Always remember that your mind is your most precious characteristic. Do not abuse it through slavish conformity to religious doctrines.
with thanks to G.H.Smith.
 
one day the religious will see, that we use our reason sense and intellect.
and do not fantasize, and will question ever unreasonable thing.
 
Atheism would solve alot of problems if everyone followed it,would sept 11th have happened if the terrorists didnt believe in an afterlife or god,no,there wouldnt be any fucking terrorists in the first place.

True there could be terrorism for other reasons,but if you knew there was nothing after death it might calm things down a bit.

Atheism is not a religion,its just a mindset where you know the difference between fantasy and reality.

Every religious person likes to constantly try to show you thier fantasy is the correct answer,but when you try to shove reality in thier face they throw more fantasy back.

It just goes on like that,the stupid part is an atheist ends up looking like the thing they oppose,i mean we know we are right,they think they are right,so you get this stupid situation like:

"i dont believe in god,dont exist"
"prove it"
"cant prove it,i just know there is no god"
"and i know there IS such thing as god"
"prove it"
"cant prove it i just know there is a god"

see so we look the same as them if you aint careful,you cant both be right,but atheism is based in reality and religion is clear fantasy based,so i choose atheism.
 
Fahrenheit good post but it gives me a follow-up question if you and the other athiests could indulge me. All religions are entertwined with philosphies or are intragrated and influenced by them later in their lifespan so that the religions are beliefs and philopshies rolled into one.

I read in Michael Shermer's book, "How We Believe", of how when he rejected Christanity and Christ as his savior he did some soul searching to find a philosphy to replace it with. He didn't subscirbe to one absolutely, but grew a liking for utilitarianism.

Did you and the other athiests, go through a similar period of searching for a philosphy to live by, and if so what is a philosphy or set of them that you have chosen to use as a guide to life?
 
I hold life to be sacred, and therefore will strive to better, the lives of everybody I can.
you could say I am a atheist/humanist, but I never went searching.
it just became clear, I was brought up with the church, just one day I saw the truth.
 
I dont think there is anything wrong with being morally christian,without being actually christian,i mean theres no reason why being an atheist means you have to be anti-christian to the point of being evil.
Cos atheism dont mean that at all,it dont mean "opposite to christian" or any other religion,it just means you dont believe in a supernatural diety.

You dont have to believe in god to be a good person,and you dont have to follow a religion to be a good person either.

There are bad people who claim to be religous and believe in god so the door swings both ways anyway.
 
Audible take one more step for me. Is there a philospher or group that you read and because of their writings you follow their philosphies in part? Or do you feel you have an internal morality ---a conscious that you follow and it more of a touchy-feely thing than an intellectual thing that can be transcribed in print?
 
I do feel like most atheist that I have an internal morality, and that it's intellectual, sensible and reasonable and above all that it's what's right .
I do like to read the thoughts of ayn rand, Madalyn Murray O'Hair.
 
Theism (is not a bad thing)

Theism, to put it simply, has also suffered from bad press. Athiests have spent a good deal of their history fretting over believers, and a major weapon in their arsenal has been the portrayal of belief as the most horrendous of evils. I could quote MANY Athiests on this site who hold this view, that religion is evil.

It is common for athiests to label Theism a moral and rational disease. Again, I could quote upon quote of this viewpoint from all over this forum.

I shall examine various intellectual and social issues from an Theistic perspective. As my previous remarks indicate, however, a Theist is bound to encounter a great deal of prejudicial misinformation about his position. Therefore, in order to set the record straight from the beginning, I shall now address, as briefly as possible, some of the questions most commonly asked about Theism.


What is a Theist? An Theist is a person who BELIEVES in the existence of a god, i.e., in the existence of a supernatural being.


Why does the Theist believe in a god? Quite simply, because belief in a god is not unreasonable.


Can the Theist prove that a god exists? Beyond any shadow of a doubt? No, otherwise who could believe otherwise? However, the same could also be said of believe in an external world. One cannot prove, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that anything outside of himself exists at all. We take the existence of the external world as a granted because the pervasiveness of our senses is too potent to ignore, or set aside as insignificant. So too, does the theist consider God. While such a being is not necessarily sensually observed, that anything exists at all is strong evidence in support of a God, that is, an infinite being.


But haven't philosophers proved that god does not exist? No. All such attempts have failed. Most philosophers and theologians now concede that belief in a god must rest on faith, while being supported by reason, but not reliant on reason.


Why accept the existence of a god on faith? Because to accept on faith is simply to believe. Belief is an action performed daily. From believing the truth of a friend's story, to believing what you read in books. It is a common action, NOT so very opposed to reason as you might think. In actuality, you could not function in this world without participating in the action of believe to at least a minimal degree. Usually, faith and reason work in conjunt, not in disjunct.


Isn't it possible for faith to err? Yes, obviously faith is fallible, but this calls for a more diligent and conscientious use of faith, not its abandonment. Our beliefs may occasionally fail us or lead us astray, but this does not mean that we should stop believing. Rather, that our beliefs be adjusted whenever a previously unknown fact is brought to light.


But don't people need to believe in a god? No. First and foremost, a person needs to know the truth, for this is the basic means by which we function successfully in the world. However, knowledge of truth often leads people to the belief in a god, though, this is obviously not the case with everyone.


Is Theism immoral? Far from it. An honest, carefully examined conviction can never be immoral. On the contrary, the scrupulous use of one's faith, in conjunct with reason is a supreme virtue, just as the scrupulous use of one's reason, in conjunct with faith is a supreme virtue.


Can there be meaning and purpose to life without a god? Yes, of course. It isn't a matter of whether there is meaning and purpose, it's a matter of personal responsibility. Only you, the individual, can decide whether to live your life with meaning and purpose, with or without a god. No theist should push responsibility onto a god, that is an escape.


Why is theism important? Theism is important because it is reasonable, and reason is of crucial importance in human affairs. Theism is not a morass of irrational, antimind doctrines.


Why, then, should I consider Theism? Because you owe it to yourself to examine the issue of religious belief carefully and to reach the best judgment you can. Never, never doubt the efficacy of your mind. Never allow others, through pressure or intimidation, to cloud your judgment. If you decide that theism is a reasonable position, then adopt it with pride and dignity. Always remember that your mind is your most precious characteristic. Do not abuse it through slavish conformity to antireligious doctrines.
 
For those who aren't already aware of it, The Brights is an attempt to reduce the bad press dealt to Atheism.


For what it's worth, I suggest that the view of Atheism as evil is more universal among theists (the rule rather than the exception?) than the view of Theism as evil among brights (the exception, not the rule). I haven't researched this, so take with salt.
 
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I'm a theist and I still use reason and logic all the time. In fact, if it wasn't for reason and logic, I wouldn't have become a theist a few years ago!

What makes atheism so unpopular is not the atheist characteristic but the skeptical one. Skeptic people are usually close-minded and they are totally unwilling to accept their understanding as wrong. So they shut down anything that doesn't agree with their beliefs. This is the ssence of atheism and skepticism, and that is why it is so unpopular - because it is so agressive and close-minded.

That's what happened with Socrates. He proved eveyone wrong, and they didn't want to admit that they were wrong. Every skeptical behaviour is a defense mechanism in itself, used to save the face of the individual who is wrong. Truth is lost as a result of the selfishness of such behaviour.
 
TruthSeeker said:
What makes atheism so unpopular is not the atheist characteristic but the skeptical one. Skeptic people are usually close-minded and they are totally unwilling to accept their understanding as wrong. So they shut down anything that doesn't agree with their beliefs. This is the ssence of atheism and skepticism, and that is why it is so unpopular - because it is so agressive and close-minded.

Unpopular to whom? who the hell wants to be popular,ive tried it...dont like it much.
But anyway,what you said is true of a theist aswell,cos how many theists will accept thier belief as wrong?
none of ya,cos you all believe you are right and we are wrong.

And we believe we are right and you are wrong,youre talking about extreme opposites of the same coin essentially.

Open minded,well how can you be a theist and open minded,the only way you can get close to that is by being agnostic,but if youre agnostic youre neither a atheist or a theist.

To be open minded means youre openly willing to accept either argument as possible truth or plausable theory.

Both sides are closed minded in that respect,who's right?
well i think the atheists are,and you dont,and thats the end of it.
 
Hi Truthseeker,
While some skeptics are as you claim, the generalisation is far from true.
What is a Skeptic?, by Robert Carroll

Skepticism and Theism are not incompatible.

Skullz,
Many theists are open minded. Being open minded is to consider alternatives, something which many people, (theists and atheists alike) do, and which many people (theists and atheists alike) fail to do.

If a theist considers an alternative, and honestly decides that there is insufficient reason to choose to change their faith, then that is a valid choice.
 
The medieval theologian Thomas Aquinas, perhaps the greatest mind in Catholic history, taught "the sin of unbelief is greater than any sin that occurs in the perversion of morals," and he recommended that the heretic "be exterminated from the world by death."
I don't think Thomas Aquinas ever said this. To be a heretic, however, you must be first baptized, thus taking a vow to stay faithful. Here is some of his writings about unbelief. http://www.newadvent.org/summa/301001.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/301003.htm
 
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Pete said:
Hi Truthseeker,
While some skeptics are as you claim, the generalisation is far from true.
What is a Skeptic?, by Robert Carroll

Skullz,
Many theists are open minded. Being open minded is to consider alternatives, something which many people, (theists and atheists alike) do, and which many people (theists and atheists alike) fail to do.

If a theist considers an alternative, and honestly decides that there is insufficient reason to choose to change their faith, then that is a valid choice.

I accept what youre saying however an atheist and a theist are both closed minded to stay at that title.

How can you be an open minded atheist,well you can but not when it comes to god/s,same with theism.

A lot of this comes down to our use of the english language,id say i was an open minded atheist,but i doubt very much youd ever convince me god exists.

On the other hand i might argue for and against on things like time travel and many worlds theorys,with those types of things i stay skeptical,but there is at least some sort of science surrounding them.

With the notion of god,you just dont have enough information to even be skeptical,youre better off brushing the theory aside untill there is more information.

Now with scientific ideas like many worlds,time travel,big bang,speed of light and so on,science makes discoveries and there is a progression,something to write home about,but with god,its the same position as it was thousands of years ago,the theory has only got more unstable over time,it dont appear to get more support as a theory as time passes,its old hat philosophy.
 
audible said:
I do feel like most atheist that I have an internal morality, and that it's intellectual, sensible and reasonable and above all that it's what's right .
I do like to read the thoughts of ayn rand, Madalyn Murray O'Hair.


lol morality and O'hair do not belong in the same sentence. Actually, she is from austin tx my hometown and I use to listen to her speeches in the early 90's before she was killed by one of her followers. I don't remember tons of it cause she rants a lot but it was easily as intolerant as many religions in the world today.

I remember one time reading that her arguement against the existance of God was to stand in a thunderstorm while pregnant and said if there was a God he will strike me down and kill me with my baby in me.

She lived to be killed by one of her zealot athiest followers in the years passing. Her research while geniune on some levels had the same venom as many fundementalist of various religions.
 
SKULLZ said:
I accept what youre saying however an atheist and a theist are both closed minded to stay at that title.

I disagree.

Skullz,
You appear to be of the opinion that all theists are unwilling to consider the possibility that there is no God, and that all atheists are unwilling to consider the possibility that there is a God.

Wrong on both counts.

If a theist honestly examines arguments against God, then they are being open minded. If they honestly decide that those arguments are insufficient reason to change their belief in God, that does not make them closed minded.
Many theists are in that position.

Same argument applies to atheists.

To me, "closed minded" implies intellectual dishonesty.
 
SKULLZ said:
It just goes on like that,the stupid part is an atheist ends up looking like the thing they oppose,i mean we know we are right,they think they are right,so you get this stupid situation like:

"i dont believe in god,dont exist"
"prove it"
"cant prove it,i just know there is no god"
"and i know there IS such thing as god"
"prove it"
"cant prove it i just know there is a god"

If you think that that is the pinnacle of religious apologetics, you need to get out more.
 
Did you and the other athiests, go through a similar period of searching for a philosphy to live by, and if so what is a philosphy or set of them that you have chosen to use as a guide to life?

I would like to use a quote which I feel is of relevance here, and makes a very valid point:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts

For a moment try and look at it from our perspective. Ask yourself why you would instantly dismiss any chance of the existence of allah, bigfoot, or the bogeyman.

If you are a sane and rational human being you cannot possibly just stand up and say "that's true" when someone makes a claim to the existence of something. Now, you might have seen, or spoken to god - just as another person has seen a ghost or UFO - but you can't expect anyone else to just accept that which you claim to be true because you say so.

The things that I personally support and believe in are openly testable. It's like gravity.. When I have doubts about its validity I simply throw an apple in the air. That same method of 'fact finding' cannot be done with god, daemons, fairies or flying saucers and as such they cannot be considered as an undeniable reality.

While I am willing to accept that there are many things we don't know, there is absolutely no reason to accept something completely undetectable as a truth.

To say otherwise is astoundingly silly.

Of course if you have personally 'seen' or 'heard' god, then nobody can blame you for believing as you do - but then even that needs some scrutiny. How much do you understand about yourself and your brain? The reason I ask is because when someone claims to have 'seen' or 'heard' god, I question them about it with very simple questions such as:

"What does he look/sound like?"

The bizarre thing is that every single person who has claimed they've seen or heard god, has failed once the questions start. They then change the 'seen/heard' to "felt". Once we're at that stage we need to question what "felt" actually implies. Can you honestly say a "feeling" or "emotion" is sign of a space entity contacting you? How valid can a belief be when it rests solely on emotions? And then how valid can it be to someone who has never experienced those emotions or feelings?

It's like asking a man what it's like to be a woman. Without experiencing it from that side, you'll never understand it. It is this by itself that shows the true futility of a religious man trying to persuade a non-believer into accepting god. He might very well be visible to you, but to the rest of us, (the unchosen), he's just non-existant. And that is exactly the same as why to a muslim allah is visible, while to you he is non-existant.

Then of course some people take it too far - claiming that the bible is 100% literal truth, that noah really did get two of every animal and so on while happily rejecting the science that has proved itself time and again. That is what pisses me off the most. You can believe in powerful space beings all you wish, but when people start rejecting science out of hand, it really let's the ignorance show.

I have nothing against people who believe in their particular god, but who accept and understand the science that has brought mankind out of caves and into the modern age.

(P.S: The "you" doesn't mean you specifically - it's just a general you) :D
 
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