Atheism and political apathy

[S.A.M.]

Are atheists more likely to be politically apathetic, considering that politics is about power and authority, which atheists decry as a source of brainwashing? Are there "conservative" atheists? Atheists who believe in monarchies? Fascist atheists?

Or, considering the amount of time and effort they invest in removing religious symbols from public life (or pursuing frivolous lawsuits to do the same) are they more politically aware but less politically useful?

Do they just want to chip away at existing institutions without clear ideas of what they want in stead?

 

[spidergoat]

It's not frivolous to maintain the separation of church and state. Atheists do not necessarily decry power and authority. Atheism has nothing do to with that position, unless the power and authority is associated disproportionally with theism.

 

[S.A.M.]

It's not frivolous to maintain the separation of church and state. Atheists do not necessarily decry power and authority. Atheism has nothing do to with that position, unless the power and authority is associated disproportionally with theism.

Hmm so they have no argument against brainwashing when it suits their purpose?

 

[spidergoat]

Atheism isn't a comprehensive worldview, it's not a religion, just a philosophical position with respect to Gods. I'm personally against brainwashing.

 

[S.A.M.]

Atheism isn't a comprehensive worldview, it's not a religion, just a philosophical position with respect to Gods.

Strange, I could have sworn atheism was an opinion on theists rather than theism.

I'm personally against brainwashing.

Do you think children should be left in the woods when they are born so that they arrive at an independent viewpoint? Are you anti-education?

 

[spidergoat]

It's bad to swear. And yes, children should be left in the woods whenever possible.

 

[Cris]

SAM,

Strange, I could have sworn atheism was an opinion on theists rather than theism.

Pay attention. You should know better by now.

Do you think children should be left in the woods when they are born so that they arrive at an independent viewpoint? Are you anti-education?

It is better that they are taught how to think rather than told what to think.

 

[Kadark]

Atheists are indeed politically apathetic - whether by nature or coincidence, I'm not entirely sure. Religious people have always been highly concerned with the politics in a given state, and have always displayed greater passion and aggression when it came to battling corruption and/or seeking basic rights. The best thing that can happen to an elite handful of people is to have atheism undermine religion, because atheists generally don't partake in politics or worldwide affairs as vociferously as their religious counterparts. Remove the belief in God from a group of people, and replace that faith instead with a belief in authority. That is the formula which is responsible for the common atheist's political apathy.

 

[redarmy11]

I was going to say 'Generalisations-R-Us' but it's not even that.

Basically, you're pulling this out of your backside.

Atheism isn't a comprehensive worldview, it's not a religion, just a philosophical position with respect to Gods.

And there we have it. Nothing else is or should be implied.

 

[S.A.M.]

It is better that they are taught how to think rather than told what to think.

So regimented schooling is out. Military education is out. Learning numbers and established concepts and symbols (such as alphabet, language, music) is out. Learning established methods is out.

Considering brainwashing is the coercive enforcement of opinion or ideology which may be contrary to a persons prior opinion or ideology, what part of education is NOT brainwashing?

And considering all politics is based on what people have already established, laws and rules, etc, atheism should be anti-politics. So educating children about political viewpoints is also brainwashing.

IOW, atheism is not just politically apathetic, atheists should not even venture into politics and should demonstrate against it.

 

[Cris]

Are atheists more likely to be politically apathetic, considering that politics is about power and authority, which atheists decry as a source of brainwashing?

I thought atheists simply disbelieved in gods. On the other issues I suspect they have a range of ideas just like everyone else.

Are there "conservative" atheists? Atheists who believe in monarchies? Fascist atheists?

Probably in a similar ratio to everyone else. Although I’d suspect that if any group was pushing a theistic view strongly then they’d likely object.

Or, considering the amount of time and effort they invest in removing religious symbols from public life (or pursuing frivolous lawsuits to do the same) are they more politically aware but less politically useful?

Probably no more than anyone else who pursue frivolous lawsuits for other reasons.

Do they just want to chip away at existing institutions without clear ideas of what they want in stead?

Probably no different to anyone except where it might conflict with their disbelief in gods.

 

[spidergoat]

Historically, in the United States, churches haven't been involved in politics, since they felt that would be left to God to control indirectly somehow, whatever comes is His will. Lately, that has changed.

 

[Syzygys]

There is nothing wrong with political apathy, if it is based on reality. For example in the US, masses are brainwashed and changes are pretty much impossible. So instead of bitching about politics and making enemies, one might as well go to a sport event or take the dog out for a walk, or spend time with the kids.

Now I am all for monarchies!! It is much cheaper in today's economy and one or a few people can make just as bad decisions than a whole Congress! So why waste money on democracy? Not to mention that political dinasties still exist, so what is the difference really???

 

[S.A.M.]

Historically, in the United States, churches haven't been involved in politics, since they felt that would be left to God to control indirectly somehow, whatever comes is His will. Lately, that has changed.

So you are against any organisation representing a segment of the population being involved in politics?

 

[spidergoat]

Yes, no one should be involved in politics.

 

[Cris]

SAM,

So regimented schooling is out. Military education is out. Learning numbers and established concepts and symbols (such as alphabet, language, music) is out. Learning established methods is out.

What I said was that it is better that they are taught how to think not told what to think.

Absorbing information is not about thinking. Thinking is about how the information is used.

And yes - a great deal of traditional teaching methods are a waste of time. In my past I have developed industrial training courses and taught them around the world and taught other trainers. I learnt a great deal about how people absorb information; retain it, and how they use it. My courses were concerned with problem analysis so techniques of reasoned thought were essential.

The earliest things that should be taught are – how to remember, how to read fast, how to think. Everything else beyond that is a matter of application of those building blocks. At the moment some 90% of the information sprayed at school students is forgotten. Long classroom sessions generally result in being able to remember the first few minutes and the last few. Not being able to read fast means thousands of hours wasted in absorbing information that is mostly forgotten. And then when information is absorbed and remembered there is rarely a framework in which one is taught what to do with it.

Considering brainwashing is the coercive enforcement of opinion or ideology which may be contrary to a persons prior opinion or ideology, what part of education is NOT brainwashing?

Wow – I can’t see that any of what you just said relates in any way to my own school education.

If that is a reflection of your school life then no wonder you appear so screwed up.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes, no one should be involved in politics.

Hmm so you too are in favor of a monarchy?

And yes - a great deal of traditional teaching methods are a waste of time. In my past I have developed industrial training courses and taught them around the world and taught other trainers. I learnt a great deal about how people absorb information; retain it, and how they use it. My courses were concerned with problem analysis so techniques of reasoned thought were essential.

Hmm so basically you replaced peoples opinions and ideas with those you considered better. Thats brainwashing.

Wow – I can’t see that any of what you just said relates in any way to my own school education.

If that is a reflection of your school life then no wonder you appear so screwed up.

And now you're trying it on me. :bugeye:

 

[iceaura]

Are atheists more likely to be politically apathetic, considering that politics is about power and authority, which atheists decry as a source of brainwashing? Are there "conservative" atheists? Atheists who believe in monarchies? Fascist atheists?

Our own Mr G on this forum.

Where did you get the idea that an atheist would be apathetic in the face of power and authority, with all their dangers of brainwashing ?

Seneca's astute observation comes in here, paraphrased : The wise find the gods false, the foolish find them true, the powerful find them useful.

I see no reason why an atheist would be any less attracted to power - and a clever, dishonest one would have certain freedoms in its use, as Machiavelli pointed out.

And the threat posed by such a one is partly countered by this:

So you are against any organisation representing a segment of the population being involved in politics?

No. Just religions.

 

[Cris]

SAM,

Hmm so basically you replaced peoples opinions and ideas with those you considered better. That’s brainwashing.

Please pay attention. I said it is better to teach how to think not what to think. Why do you not understand the difference?

And now you're trying it on me.

Huh?

 

[S.A.M.]

Our own Mr G on this forum.

Where did you get the idea that an atheist would be apathetic in the face of power and authority, with all their dangers of brainwashing ?

Seneca's astute observation comes in here, paraphrased : The wise find the gods false, the foolish find them true, the powerful find them useful.

I see no reason why an atheist would be any less attracted to power - and a clever, dishonest one would have certain freedoms in its use, as Machiavelli pointed out.

Are you quoting atheists at me now? Sheesh.

So what was Seneca's contribution to politics? Is this Seneca the younger? Did he fiddle with Nero while Rome burned? Wasn't he convicted of terrorism, slit his veins and die? Weird role models.

SAM,

I said it is better to teach how to think not what to think. Why do you not understand the difference?

Huh?

You mean teach how to think using established modes of thinking. Or ideas or concepts about thought and learning and cognition. In other words, moulding childrens brains to conform to social standards of measure. Like exams and IQ tests. Or performance "appraisals"